General Chat / Shootings and explosions in Paris 11/13/2015

  • chorkiel%s's Photo

    Years ago there was a small online movement in the Netherlands where muslims would voice out their distancing by using a hashtag that said 'not my islam'. That was pretty great. It's good if muslims actively voice out their opinion on extremism. However, Faas is also right. Why should they? From what I've gathered over the years, most muslims don't look at those terrorists as actual muslims. Their religion simply wouldn't condone such behavior.

  • Sulakke%s's Photo
    Maybe you can't find them in your country because you don't really speak to Muslims in general. 

    I do know some muslims. I've lived for years in one of the most multi-cultural city in The Netherlands. But yes, I rarely speak with muslims nowadays. Something about intergration.

     

    Don't base your opinion of people on what you see on the news.

     

    The news, seriously? If there is anything that is left and pro-multicultural society it is the public news channels in the Netherlands. My opinion is based on my experiences, what I see and hear on the streets.
     

     

    Edit: and why should the majority of Muslims speak out against terrorism? They've got nothing to do with it? Why should they have to answer for terrorists just because they share the same religion.

    Precisely because they share the same religion. People get killed in the name of this religion. The least the moderate islamic world could do is to disassociate from the jihad, but it's seldomly done. Probably because a large part of muslims living in Europe feel still more connected to their extremist muslim brothers than to the western world.

    Their religion simply wouldn't condone such behavior.
     

    Why not? The Koran demands it.

  • Faas%s's Photo

    I do know some muslims. I've lived for years in one of the most multi-cultural city in The Netherlands. But yes, I rarely speak with muslims nowadays. Something about intergration.
     

     
    The news, seriously? If there is anything that is left and pro-multicultural society it is the public news channels in the Netherlands. My opinion is based on my experiences, what I see and hear on the streets.

    The two last sentences of the paragraphs contradict each other a tiny bit. Also, integration is a two way street. You can't give the people coming here all the responsibility for intergrating, responsibility is also with the host community. And if you seriously think all Muslims in the Netherlands should actively speak out against terrorism, and if you seriously think most muslims here are okay with and applaud terrorism, then you are part of this whole integration problem as well, because those claims are based on nothing more than speculation and misinformation.
  • Roomie%s's Photo

    Why not? The Koran demands it.


    Oh yes such as the passage.

    "Make ready to slaughter the infidels sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants"

    Oh wait... sorry that's from the Bible.

    The truth is many such religious texts have similar passages and many many translations and interpretations. And if you Google that passage above you will see how many different translations there are and I how many different versions of the Bible.

    The same is true of the Koran. I'll admit the koran has somewhat more open ended statements which leave them devoid of the historical context many of the similar phrases in the Bible have.

    But it's all in the interpretation. And the vast majority of Muslims don't belive the koran calls for the killing of innocents the same way the majority of Christians don't belive the Bible does.

    Sure there are extremist sects in all religions. even Buddhism has its violent sects (see myanmar).

    And it makes sense people with those ideologies are the most visible and get the most attention. You don't notice a peaceful guy going about his daily buisness as much as a man shouting bile from a box.

    Anyway I wasn't going to post on this thread again. I seem to have failed.
  • Sulakke%s's Photo

    I don't say they should do it, but it would be a nice gesture. Especially since the tensions between the Islam and the rest of the world are bigger than ever in modern times. And sure, the pro-jihad voices are louder than the rest, but that makes it even more important that moderate moslims cleary dissociate themselves from the jihad.

     

    Integration is a total different topic, which does not belong in here, I think. But you can't deny that The Netherlands is one of the most immigrant tolerant countries in the world, with probably only Germany in front of it. There are not many other countries where immigrants have a bigger chance of succesfully integrate into our society. And you can't deny that a large part of the immigrants here are only living here for the economical benefits. They don't feel Dutch, they don't speak proper Dutch, but they do enjoy the benefits of living in a well developped country. So yes, I think integration is the responsibility of the immigrant. They need us more than we need them. And next to that, like I already mentioned, The Netherlands is already open for them. They just don't take their chances.

     

    @ Roomie: Did I say anything about other religions being better? But yes, the Koran says it, and so does the Bible. Religion is the worst thing that was ever created by mankind.

  • SensualEthiopianPolice%s's Photo

    Sulakke, isn't that unfair to them, they ought to do something for you despite having zero connection to it. It's like asking a white person to apologize for slavery, they had no role in it, yeah white people owned slaves but that person specifically did not so why should they be held accountable

  • Sulakke%s's Photo

    That comparison doesn't make sense at all. You're talking about a race. In this topic we're having a discussion about religion.

     

    And besides, there are thousands of slavery memorials and appologies made by 'white people', and they are still being build.

  • Louis!%s's Photo
    Roomie I was going to request that you use the check in button on facebook to let me know you were ok, but I saw you were sliding slides and assumed everything was fine!

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