Park / Mossflower Wood
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25-February 06
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hey
Wish I could view all these parks. Too bad my disk is screwed. Will go get the other one soon
Xcoaster Offline
So, yeah, I guess I'm viewing the park in a completely different sense than you were. I typically view a park as at least semi-realistic unless if it's obvious that it can't possibly exist in the real world, like it if has floating scenery, trackless coasters, rides that are meant to kill people, or is in space, on top of lava, lacks some essential theme park elements, such as paths, etc. This one seemed at least like an attempt to make a somewhat realistic park. Maybe a more dreamlike one that represents a world other than our own, but aren't almost all theme parks like that?
Anyways, I think I might know one reason I wasn't so enthralled with this one. I've noticed most of the other parks had something about it I could say I really liked. Kumba's had funny details, Old Red's had lovely landscaping, DarkJanus' had kick-ass archy, Magnus' had elevators and a syringe (
Anywho, I think I'm done being so negative about this park, because it honestly was not bad at all. It was actually better than I expected, and it's certainly a step up from his prelim entry. I'm just sort of in awe at the highly differing opinions of it.
EDIT:You could always get a no-cd patch or something, assuming you own the game. I did that because my CD drive crapped out on my laptop.
Edited by Xcoaster, 25 February 2006 - 09:11 PM.
Corkscrewed Offline
Anyway, I think the overall placement of this park was about right. A little bit high, but not outrageously so.
I know that everyone loves creativity and all, but the way some people rag on this park "only being about quantity" sort of concerns me. Granted, just because you finish a park doesn't mean you should automatically place higher, but in my book, it does count for something. And it's not like he totally littered the rest of the park with trees ala Old Red. Sure, Jazz has a lot of useless buildings, but they add to the atmosphere. Panic's right: this is a really nice little dream world. It's not meant to be a home run or even a triple. It's just a solid park that hits for good average. And I like it.
We talk about a good solid completed park as though it's below us, but frankly, I'd take this over someone trying to do something extraordinary but reaching too far and failing. It's not like this is bad, folks. The coasters are average. The theming is above average. The architecture is quite commendable. The landscaping is nice. A nice effort.
The coasters I felt sort of wandered, and many of them had layouts that seemed unguided (as though you just wanted to get a bunch of helixes). However, the way everything worked into each other and how the theming building around the coasters ended up blending into them covers up this "flaw." The coasters, though awkward in layout, fit into their surroundings, which I liked.
It's pretty obvious Jazz had a lot of fun building this park, and it's definitely his best yet. I would place it below DJ's park, but I'd have to think about where it goes in relation to Magnus. Definitely above Old Red, Kumba, and Six Frags tho.
In short, Mossflower Wood isn't spectacular or mindblowing, but it's a good, complete, solid park. So somewhere around 10th place is exactly where I'd put it.
My Rankings [personal weighted score out of 10.0 to show where they rate in comparison to each other, IMO]:
14. Old Red [5.0]
13. Kumba [6.2]
12. Six Frags [6.6]
11. Jazz [7.5]
10. Magnus [7.7]
9. Dark Janus [7.9]
very quaint and some nice coasters. i think someone said it best with the basketball analogy. You didnt go for the quirk or the gimick and went for a normal park. and pulled it off well.
I didnt think the coasters were too bad. there were some criminal underbank turns but the suspended was pretty cool and the rest wernt bad. I did love the placement of the first loop on the invert and the entrance area was lovely. Overall a good atmosphere and i think it deserves its placement in relation to the other parks seen so far.
Congrats jazz. Up the underdog
I used to... But now I had to reformat and the disk don't work. But I can borrow a disk off my cousin soon.
HandyAndyG: Thanks a lot; I know most of the architecture was below par; but that's an area I have improved a pretty great deal on since this park.
X250: Lol.. thanks, that's the one thing that I'm definitely happy about; proving evryone wrong.
bernts matte: Thanks.
Akasha: Thank you.
$agie: Thanks, that was the main reason I had a good incentive as to fully complete the park, because I picked a solid theme that I knew a lot about.
Metropole: Thank you for the constructive criticism; I'll keep that in mind. I know that this entry had many weak spots, and I have improved a great amount since then, but I appreciate you for having an honest opinion.
Six Frags: Thanks, this whole entire park is based on the Redwall books, which is a medieval type fairy-tale idea. The atmosphere of the park, as Panic mentioned, was supposed to be very fantasy-ish.
CoasterCrazy: Well, I was thinking of building Redwall Abbey, but I really didn't have enough space for it anywhere, but I should have deleted a lot of the architecture to make room for it.
Toon: I completey agree with you. But keep in mind, you say that you asked your son how he thought that the park represented the Redwall books. This park was based on how I pictured the Redwall atmosphere; so I don't really understand why you would lower the park's score (even though you say it wasn't significant) merely because of what your son's opinion is of how Mossflower Wood is, not how I pictured it. Thanks for the comment, though.
Phatage: Thanks, I agree with your analogy. I wasn't really trying to create anything overly bizzare here, I was just trying to get a nice, solid complete park in.
tyandor: Sorry you didn't like it... I really appreciate the fact that you just brought it down and didn't even explain your opinion.
king bob: Thanks for the compliment.
Xcoaster: Thanks for the constructive criticism; I apprectiate the fact that you actually explained why you didn't like it... unlike Tyandor.
Panic: Thanks for your comment; I really did enjoy building this park, because I based it off of a theme which I know and like very well.
Steve: Thanks for the compliment.
J K: Thanks; as I said before, I still thought it was creative in its own way, but maybe just because something isn't overly bizzare doesn't mean it sitll doesn't have a creative meaning to it.
Kumba: Thanks for the comment.
ride6: Thanks for your opinion and compliments, they're appreciated.
ACEfanatic02: Meh... opinions are opinions. Thanks for your comment though...
Panic: Thanks again; you hit the nail on the head. This park is supposed to be a fantastical dream world type-thing. I tried to make an enchanted medieval world based off the Redwall books.
Xcoaster: I complete agree with you about the extreme contrast in the judges' scores; I never would have expected to place this high...
Titan: Lol.. I'm really eager to here Natelox's and Fatha's opinions, if possible. I want to hear their input on the park and to see what they thought of it.
Corkscrewed: Thanks for your comment, I really appreciate it. I did have a lot of fun in this park, but it took a lot of effort as well.
Gutterflower: Thanks for your compliments, I think "underdog" may be a good title for me in this competition as well...
Thanks again for the comments everyone. I really appreciated everyone's feedback and opinions. Anyways...
I had a lot of fun building this park. It's based on the Redwall series by Brian Jacques, which is sort of a medieval-fantasy-ish type set of books. Mossflower Wood is a name derived from one of the books, and it's also the region in which all of the books take place. Every single area of this park was based on how I pictured the books, and I translated my outlook on the Redwall books into this park. Believe me, if I could redo this PT2 entry today, half of the park (perhaps even more) would be demolished, fully reconstructed, and replanned. River Moss, Salamandastron, and Martin the Warrior are all my best areas, IMO, and I would barely change anything, except for maybe a bit more landscaping and some arhcy-refinement. The entrance area is the only part of the park where I'm completey satisfied with as of now, because I have improved a great amount since I built this park. And I know this park does have obvious ups and downs, but I can definitely say that each and every square of land was thorougly planned out before I built this park. And every single coaster, and just about every building did have a purpose (for the most part). So in conclusion, thanks again for all of the comments. I also want to thank the judges panel and iris for your opinions and thoughts, and Corky for the logo (that's really nice btw). This placement was much higher than I had expected beforehand, a top ten placement didn't even cross my mind, becuase I know I'm up against some of the greatest RCT parkmakers around. I did enjoy proving everyone wrong though...
Keep the comments coming...
~Jazz~
Edited by Jazz, 26 February 2006 - 08:25 AM.
Some more comment on all the parks by those the judges (apart from iris, panic and toon who already wrote their opinion) would really be interesting to see.
~Jazz~
you are improving but i would work on archy and themes a little. but congrats on #9 spot!
heres how i would rate the parks so far:
9. Magnus
10. Dark Janus
11. Jazz
12. Kumba
13. Six Frags
14. Old Red (partially because i still cant open the park)
It's normal, and that's what makes it different.
Rhynos Offline
And for us others, I think the reason most of us judge this so critically is because the judges placed this park so high, gave it so much hype, and all for a slightly known park maker (there is a space, signifying a difference). Honestly, I'm glad that people such as Jazz can make a park like this and place so well in the competition even against people that are known to make great parks (SF, DJ). It shows that you don't need a reputation to be great, which is often the case for some poor entries from great people.
So, all in all, great work Jazz, and hope for you to keep wow-ing us.
I see a lot of similarties in our styles, which gave me a soft spot for the park. Your parkmaking obviously relies a lot on architecture, like mine does, which can be good or bad as I've learned. A lot of architecture can be good because it gives the viewer tons to look at and gives the park a lot of substance. But it can be bad because it can lead to clutteredness and crowdedness which I don't typically mind, but many other RCT2 critics do and I've also be less fond of myself of recent. In this park, I think you added slightly too much focus on architecture and not enough on ride design, which brought it down. I also think you added too much foliage, which only increased the over-crowdedness. But, to stay on the topic of architecture, I think your buildings relied far too much on 2x2ism, which has always been a fault with yours imo. Although its not entirely prevelant throughout the park this time, its definitely noticable and makes your buildings seem more like heavily decorated boxes rather than high quality architecture.
The next subject I'd like to comment on is your rides. You had TONS of rides, but no stalls? I guess using stalls isn't for everyone, but for me they are crictical to giving your buildings some life especially when you have as many buildings as you did. I mean you were good at giving some of the buildings a purpose or meaning, but there was not one stall. Probably just a little pet peeve of mine, so I guess its not a biggie. As far as the coaster designs, well, erm, the only two I only slightly enjoyed were "Martin The Warrior" and "Matia's Quest". The others were just too amatuer for my tastes. One other minor pet peeve was that I had to open all the rides upon opening the park. Overall though, a good lineup of rides, despite some flaws in design.
The theming was only good if not average. I think the theme concepts were decent and pretty obvious but like I mentioned, I think the 2x2ism and lack of texture refinement really hurt the themes. The colors were good, but alone were not enough to make the themes one of a kind. Definite room for improvement is how I would classify the themes.
So, in the end, I really did enjoy the park Jazz. I'll have to almost agree with nate's and fatha's scores, because this park was just tremendous despite some of the obvious flaws. I probably would put this at #10 right now, just behind Janus' park. Tremendous job Jazz. You definitely are on my radar now and I can't wait to see future projects of yours.
Strange... I thought I had, but I just with a lot less words. The long write up would mean mostly summing up a lot of comments of the rest of people, like the 2X2 architecture stuff. Besides, this is the Pro Tour, not the ad district, but I'll explain my words a bit more.
What I meant to say is that this park just doesn't have a distinguished identity and just looks like stuff we've all seen before. You must ask yourself this question: what does make my park stand out? My answer would be: not much. Quantity is only one part of a park, but quality is a lot more important in my book and your space to improve is in that department and I think you're able to that.
I think it's just that after DJ's entry my expectations probably were too high in general.
I liked the park overall. I don't know anything about the books so I really cannot comment on that. I love that you are not afraid of using color (ala JKay) and that you use the map and fill it up. Your architecture is boxy and a bit repetitive but you will improve on that the more you make parks. I think you also do too much repetitve theming with the same objects so you might want to mix that up more. The coasters were not that great, especially the suspended (I'd have puked my guts out on that one!
By the way, off topic to Jazz' entry, but I'd like to commend Cork for making such nice logos for all these parks, and also to Iris, hobbes, and the judges for putting this contest on. It's a lot of work and much appreciated!
newk: Thanks; architecture is the main category I have improved most since I built this entry.
natelox: Thanks a lot for your comment; I'm glad you enjoyed my park.
Rhynos: Thanks for your compliments, I greatly appreciate them.
JKay: Thank you for your comments and constructive criticism; they're appreciated. I have improved a lot since I built this, so hopefully my next park might be able to make a better impression.
tyandor: Thanks for actually explaining your dislike of the park this time; now I can properly respond to your post. I really think you should consider natelox's opinion though; because a park doesn't always have to be extremely creative or wacky to have good quality.
Buckeye Becky: Thanks for your comments, my Fusion Survivor entry will hopefully be a lot better than this.
Anyways, thanks again for everyone's input, and keep the feedback coming if there is any remaining...
~Jazz~
I really enjoyed the pearls of lutra/martin the warrior area. Nice color scheme there, and it didn't feel as cramped as the rest of the park.
The landscaping and foliage were pretty weak. There was sooo much going on, that it started looking random and sloppily put together.
All in all, I am impressed by what Jazz can do, but I'm a little vexed by the high scores it recieved. I'm not saying that it wasn't a worthy park for the pt2, which it was.
Be proud Jazz, and congrats!
Sorry I'm late getting to this park. It's really quite lovely. There's not a whole lot of variety with the architecture, though, and I think that manifests itself as a lack of atmosphere at times. I like the colors in the wooden coaster section the most. I'm a sucker for the pale greens.
I'm really glad you got an entry in and I enjoyed exploring your little world. Congratulations!
Now work on making those waterfalls a little less blocky.
Its quite interesting the way the LL orientated judges liked this more. I myself being an LL devotee also liked this much more than the average seems to be.
Kudos on replying to all the feedback individually too jazz.
Oh and great logo too corky.