General Chat / Man Dies on Superman at SFNE

Well, I'm not just talking about this one. If this many fatalities are occurring in the amusement park industry then something needs to be worked on. We can't just say that this particular one wasn't the lap bar's fault, and say that with the next death that occurs, and the next. Anyone here seen Runaway Jury? Remember what Dustin Hoffman says on the last day of trials? Something like "We can make it the gun company's fault. We can use this event as a catalyst for a program for better protection from guns" or something to that effect. Same thing here. Lap bars may not be 100% the problem every time, but if we make them better anyway, then something will be improved and there probably will be less accidents. We need to make lap bars that will work and save a person's life in the case of careless ride-ops, or disabled riders, etc. Not just that account for your average person's everyday ride on the coaster.

You don't sell things that cost millions of dollars and put through more than one and a half million people a year (total guesstimate) without knowing it's safe. Unlike other crazy uninformed fucks, I'll still be riding Intamin Coasters, and I'll know that it was designed for my safety when I do. The biggest problem with our world is that everyone is a victim, and no one stops to think, "Well, maybe he did something fucking stupid" - we immediately blame everyone else, the company, the ops, the fucking train itself. Why don't we have everyone take responsibility for once?

I still can't figure out how the man would fall out if it happened during the helix and this does happen to be the result of something being wrong with the coaster. I've never been on S:ROS, but I'm guessing from what I've heard that you are pressed into your seat during the last helix.

Adix, of course the rider could have done something stupid in any accident. But we ought to work on restraints so that even someone trying to do something stupid will stay safe. We can't just go along with this "It's his fault" policy and leave it at that. Right now it seems to be, as long as you are a smart rider, you're fine, but if you're a dumb rider, you're in great danger. Why not extend complete safety to all riders? Why not make it so that the rider can't do something stupid because he's held in by the restraints, or is still relatively safe if he tries to do something dumb?

maybe they didn't tie down his restraint far enough because they knew that the guy would be shaking like a wildman.

That is pretty stupid You guys who are saying Premiers are unsafe with lapbars havnt ridden one. Those things are the tightest fitting restrains i have ridden with and they do there job i think ive ridden the most intense premier (Mr. Freeze) and Titan also has a restraint very similar to Intamins restraints it does its job also. Now that we know his condition i think we can drop all the "its the restrains fault" mumbo jumbo he had a medical condition and i think it was the Ride Ops fault for letting him ride it. They should have put it down all the way if it was. Also we dont know HOW or WHY he fell out i dont know why we are arguing over this...we have nothing to argue over just our own personal opinions. If you guys are freaking out over a few deaths out of probably a billion rides on thousands of coasters every year in just this one year i dont think you have the right field of expertise. But that might just be my personal oppion...

^ I agree totally with what you just said. Most new rides featuring lapbars are usually tight. Most of the time, the ride op will MAKE SURE its tight. On Flight of Fear, I couldnt move around in the seat. Those lap bars they put on them are tightly fitted. This goes the same with Speed the Ride. And your opinion is the same as mine. A guy dies on SROS. Someone dies on Hydro. Most of the other stuff lately are carnival injuries (and thats a whole different story altogether).

Adix is right. This is a world of everyone blaming everyone. I think its pointless most of the time

What do you want them to do, Panic? Add a five point safety harness to each seat and the HANS and HUTCHINSONS devices? Youre starting to sound like Ed Markey.

The Jack Rabbit at Kennywood. barely a seat belt there. On the double dip, you get off of youre seat, but you dont fly out. Is it always the safety harness's fault?

so if the intamin restraints are at fault then people should be flying out of rides like MF, Dragster, and Xcel all the time. Sounds like there was a less than resposible ride-op at hand, and possibly a rider who really shouldnt have been riding such a ride. And I have to ask...how is a coaster manufacturer going to prevent a rider from being able to access the restraints? I am pretty sure that I have been able to secure and release every seatbelt that has held me into a coaster, OTSR's and all.

Well, I'm not just talking about this one. If this many fatalities are occurring in the amusement park industry then something needs to be worked on. We can't just say that this particular one wasn't the lap bar's fault, and say that with the next death that occurs, and the next. Anyone here seen Runaway Jury? Remember what Dustin Hoffman says on the last day of trials? Something like "We can make it the gun company's fault. We can use this event as a catalyst for a program for better protection from guns" or something to that effect. Same thing here. Lap bars may not be 100% the problem every time, but if we make them better anyway, then something will be improved and there probably will be less accidents. We need to make lap bars that will work and save a person's life in the case of careless ride-ops, or disabled riders, etc. Not just that account for your average person's everyday ride on the coaster.

#1: Don't use a movie as part of an argument. Even if the point is valid, you look like an idiot

#2: It's only "this many" because it's more than what we usually see. If you look at the big picture, it's really not a lot. Adix guestimated 1.5 million people ride coasters a year. And he totally UNDERguestimated. A park like Magic Mountain will take in 3 million guests a year, and SFMM isn't even one of the leaders in attendence. If you take all the parks in America into account, the number of coaster riders a year is probably closer to TENS of millions. One in ten million ain't too bad, though I agree that when it comes to accidents, one death is one too many. My point, however, is that you shouldn't be freaking out when three people die on coasters within four months.

You CANNOT blame Intamin for this accident unless the actual restraint failed. Having experienced this atttraction several times (sober and shitfaced drunk), I can say that the lap bars, while feeling "scarily unsafe" are very secure (this from soemone who weighs 215). I have to say, knowing nothing first hand, that the blame is probably gonna fall on the ride ops. Think about it....SF Corp. trains CHILDREN to secure and maintain riders in very high tech- state of the art machines. Not very smart on the part of SF Corp. but hey, in the UK, it's your own darn fault if you fall out of a ride.... so there ya go.

P.S. .....Panic, yes we COULD duct tape every rider into the seat mould, but my god think of the load/unload times. Even simple rides like MF would have 12 hour wait times.

You don't sell things that cost millions of dollars and put through more than one and a half million people a year (total guesstimate) without knowing it's safe. Unlike other crazy uninformed fucks, I'll still be riding Intamin Coasters, and I'll know that it was designed for my safety when I do. The biggest problem with our world is that everyone is a victim, and no one stops to think, "Well, maybe he did something fucking stupid" - we immediately blame everyone else, the company, the ops, the fucking train itself. Why don't we have everyone take responsibility for once?

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I think that you have a good point yet you must take into consideration that sometimes it IS thier fault.
And when is there going to be a law which makes it illegal for people with mental illnesses to ride thrill rides?
Remeber the kid who somehow got out of the restraints on Drop Zone? He had cerebral p. too.
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Adix guestimated 1.5 million people ride coasters a year.

Cork, I meant a single ride with 1,500 pph capacity working a 12-hour shift for 90 days... I suppose I'll just go and estimate Raging Bull's theoretical yearly capacity next time.


And the results are in...

This 2004 season, Raging Bull, with theoretical 1560 pph capacity, will take approximately 2,247,960 daring souls for one helluva' ride.
One person has died on this ride since 1999.

2004 - 1999 = 5.
2,247,960*5 = 11,239,800.

So, the death rate for just this one ride has been 1 in 11,239,800, and it will only statistically get safer. I'd feel pretty damned safe on that ride alone, but take into account all the other rides... The chances of dieing are miniscule. The chanced of mechanical error being at fault are even smaller.
95% of all car accidents are Driver Error. My guess is that about the same amount of coaster accidents are Rider Error. The rest, Op error, and maybe 0.1% being manufacturer error.

Can we stop blaming the T-Bar now?

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Outlaw rollercoasters.
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Cork, I meant a single ride with 1,500 pph capacity working a 12-hour shift for 90 days... I suppose I'll just go and estimate Raging Bull's theoretical yearly capacity next time.


And the results are in...

This 2004 season, Raging Bull, with theoretical 1560 pph capacity, will take approximately 2,247,960 daring souls for one helluva' ride.
One person has died on this ride since 1999.

2004 - 1999 = 5.
2,247,960*5 = 11,239,800.

So, the death rate for just this one ride has been 1 in 11,239,800, and it will only statistically get safer. I'd feel pretty damned safe on that ride alone, but take into account all the other rides... The chances of dieing are miniscule. The chanced of mechanical error being at fault are even smaller.
95% of all car accidents are Driver Error. My guess is that about the same amount of coaster accidents are Rider Error. The rest, Op error, and maybe 0.1% being manufacturer error.

Can we stop blaming the T-Bar now?

My bad. I wasn't sure what you were referring to, but we both have the same point: 1 in like 11 million is pretty darn good, especially considering the fact that most coaster accident deaths are the fault of the rider, not the ride.

There's been more info released, and apparently the man needed a scooter just to get around. He was also over 200 lbs, so he was probably rather top heavy. It's quite possible that the perfect set of forces torqued his body out of the train, and his weak lower body couldn't catch himself from sailing out. Basically, he never should have been riding a coaster like this in the first place, given his physical condition, but to be fair, he'd probably ridden the coaster dozens of times without incident before his death and figured he could handle it.

Make no mistake about it: you NEED your legs to ride Intamin's more extreme rides.

Keep in mind also that the woman who died on Perilous was also enormously top heavy (think of a mushroom) and clearly did not have the body type that would ensure a safe trip.

Also, apparently on Hydro, the girl removed her seat belt and also practically stood up to remove her jacket before the plummet. She was also on the skinny side. Clearly, had she remained seated and had kept her safety devices on, she would not have fallen.

Intamin designs their restraints for the average person, so if you're on either end of the extremes, you might reconsider riding a more extreme attraction. Ultimately, everyone is responsible for deciding whether or not they are fit to ride a coaster. The vast majority of incidents are the fault of the rider, and rarely is the coaster to blame (only cases that come to mind are BTMR and S:RoS in SFDL, when the brakes failed).

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Just what happened on Perilous Plunge?
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I think the Massachusetts State Legislature shut down all roller coasters in the state today, which really only effects Riverside, until the investigation is concluded. I think that's what they said, I was mostly asleep on the couch when Mr. Newsman said it.

Maybe I've been out of the loop a little too long, what the hell is Hydro and exactly what happened?

Just goes to show how stupid and arrogant Six Flags and its staff really is. Well I know I'll never be caught dead at a Six Flags park.

I've ridden Millenium Force and Appolo's Chariot, both are very safe...

I've ridden X, on the other hand, I was glad the restraints sort of caged me in cause I was up off the seat 4-6 inches almost the whole ride.

Last Saturday, a man fell from to his death off of Superman: Ride of Steel, and now, Massachusetts state officials are stopping a handful of rides featuring the use of the "T Lap Bar Restraint".

The state is calling for testing, technical evaluation, and maybe even a redesign of the restraint. By the end of the week, the department hopes to issue the report on last Saturday's accident.

The memo sent out was not intended to scare any park-goers, and is not saying that these rides featuring the "T Lap Bar Restraints" are unsafe.

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They seem to be eyeing the 'T lap bar'.....

Maybe I've been out of the loop a little too long, what the hell is Hydro and exactly what happened?

Its a 100 ft. Perilous Plunge at Oakwood in England.
Same thing happened as the lady on PP. Someone fell out, basically.