New Element - Park - The Time Machine

iris Offline

The reason that doesn't bother me is that because the way I viewed the park wasn't as a 'park'. Whereas I see cBass's, Jazz's, and even JKay's as actual amusement parks intended for people to visit, I tried to delve into the theme of X250 and look at it for what I feel it was intended to be. Four different periods of time represented...not having anything to do with each other, not supposed to give the synergy feel of a park. The time machine in the middle (which I didn't like too much either honestly, though a somewhat cool idea) that transported you to four different areas in time. They're not supposed to connect in this idea and therefore they don't connect in the park. So looking at it from a bird's eye view trying to tie it all together will just leave you with a feeling of a mess. Almost as if you threw four completely separate parks together on one overview and tried to make it flow...it'd be impossible. It's not supposed to flow, so I don't look for it to, if that makes any sense.

As for the clutteredness of the park, I agree it's a bit over the top which is why it fell a couple spots from where I initially had this park. But I disagree with the notion that over-detailed-"ism" is necessarily a bad thing. I like to be able to look at a park and notice all the things that the parkmaker wanted to include. Sure, it works better in a subtle way as in cBass's park, but the details are there the same with X250, just more in your face. I'd rather have the details in my face then not there at all.

I just don't appreciate when people call something 'hideous parkmaking' as Mark did. It's obvious X250 has a ton of talent and pulled together most of his ideas very well, so it's plain to see it's not 'hideous parkmaking'. Maybe to an overbearing cynic who'd rather rip into a new park and glorify the 'good old days' way before simply enjoying what's in front of him, but I thought this was still pretty damn good.

I also think it's ironic when people say this and cBass's are some of the first 'good' entries of this entire contest. Especially when most of these comments come from people who either weren't good enough or active enough (therefore useless as a parkmaker). I've noticed that the majority of these comments either come from parkmakers who just flat out couldn't build these entries in a thousand tries even if they duplicated them tile for tile....or old parkmakers who seem stuck in the past, remembering when they were in the position some of these new guys are in, and honestly seemingly feeling jealous of the new people taking over.

Not to keep picking on Mark, but he calls this work way over-detailed and hideous parkmaking, when I'm sure that the people that came before his time would have considered his parks in the same regard. The game constantly gets more detailed and more intricate. Dan Mack and SA probably never thought it'd get to the point of Kryptic Master and Corkscrewed, who in turn probably never thought it'd get to the point of Nevis, Natelox, and RRP, who in turn probably never thought it'd get to the point of cBass and Phatage, and so on and so on.

To end my little rant here...I just want to say it is absolutely undeniable that this is a 'good' park. The skill is there, the creativity is there, the coasters are there for the most part, the architecture is impressive, the theming ideas are there, etc. Just because they don't tie together (even though they're not supposed to) people just rip it apart. Some people are so fixated in what they want to see in a park that they just totally disregard somebody else's vision of one. This isn't supposed to be anything like cBass's park! And enough of this stupid ass 'golden age' that all these slightly older parks seem to be engulfed in. If there ever was a 'golden age' it was during the earlier years, the Nevis/RRP/Natelox/Cork/Foozy/Pyro years, a time where most of the whiners from here had absolutely no influence whatsoever. So enough of these elitist attitude that I keep seeing, cause not only is it childish and somewhat offensive to the parkmaker, but it's just simply wrong because most of the comments haven't been earned by those stating them.

Evil WME Offline

I just don't appreciate when people call something 'hideous parkmaking' as Mark did.

My fault, indeed. I should put it in other words, and mean the same honestly.. but i thought i was dealing with big children here.

Maybe to an overbearing cynic who'd rather rip into a new park and glorify the 'good old days' way before simply enjoying what's in front of him, but I thought this was still pretty damn good.

So now i'm an overbearing cynic. Well one thing that helps, i don't understand what overbearing means exactly. I'm quite sure it's nothing positive.. but my apologies for not liking the parks at hand more! I'll change my opinion right a way.

I also think it's ironic when people say this and cBass's are some of the first 'good' entries of this entire contest. Especially when most of these comments come from people who either weren't good enough or active enough (therefore useless as a parkmaker). I've noticed that the majority of these comments either come from parkmakers who just flat out couldn't build these entries in a thousand tries even if they duplicated them tile for tile....or old parkmakers who seem stuck in the past, remembering when they were in the position some of these new guys are in, and honestly seemingly feeling jealous of the new people taking over.

You really keep referencing to me, but i haven't felt being in a position in regard to NE for a long, long time. I'm glad for you being at the top of your hierarchy though.

I'm not stuck in the past either, i love cbass' entry. I guess that's not enough though. I should love this entry too if i wasn't stuck in the past.

Not to keep picking on Mark, but he calls this work way over-detailed and hideous parkmaking, when I'm sure that the people that came before his time would have considered his parks in the same regard.

Wow! indeed.. maturity points for iris.

I enjoy some of my personal work quite a lot when looking back, but i realise fully that there's a lot of potential to make a park more fullfilling than the parks i've put out. I was planning on making a park like it for the pro tour, but i was never motivated enough to seriously start on it. That doesn't matter though, i have an opinion that is based on a lot of playing and thinking and philosophizing over rct. There are few that even have a case on having put more thought into rct as me, i should definitely be able to state my possibly cynical opinion if i want to. (and it's not that weird that it became cynical, because fact is, the more you think about rct, the more you know what you like, and the more you dislike it when stuff you've thought about are being done differently and more importantly worse)

The game constantly gets more detailed and more intricate. Dan Mack and SA probably never thought it'd get to the point of Kryptic Master and Corkscrewed, who in turn probably never thought it'd get to the point of Nevis, Natelox, and RRP, who in turn probably never thought it'd get to the point of cBass and Phatage, and so on and so on.

Wow again. The game is changing now, is it? I feel it's something you want to believe, more than it's actually so. Tell me three active parkmakers today that could put out full maps close to the quality of RoB? Tell me one you honestly think is a sure thing for making something better? You probably can, but then again, i beg to differ =/.

To end my little rant here...I just want to say it is absolutely undeniable that this is a 'good' park.

Possibly my fault in saying that it wasn't, though i really don't think i left that impression. It's a 'good' park, 'good' just doesn't do much for me.

Panic Offline

Enough has been said about the park already, but honestly X250 is the person I most hope will stick with the game awhile out of basically everyone here. His best years are ahead of him. True, I wish for the days of Nevis and Pyro and all those guys to return, but if the future is going to be driven by motivated and skilled parkmakers such as X250, who looks to have another ten parks in him by how much he seems to love the game, then full speed ahead with it.

ACEfanatic02 Offline

I think the main difference between opinion here is that people are viewing these as 'parks'.

They are, in a sense, but the Pro Tour, IMO, is more for creating a concept than a realistic park. As an amusement park, yeah, this isn't all that great. As a concept piece, it's awesome, and is easily the best released so far.

-ACE

Corkscrewed Offline

I'm not going to be as brusque as dear ol' Iris here, but I'd like to reiterate that I too did not think X250 produced anything "bad." It's like what my professors say in architecture reviews... the only reason we're nitpicking this far is because everything else is there and done well. Because you've got these amazing hacks and great architecture and fantastic creativity, we can debate on the unity of the park and whether or not you're "trying too hard." These are admittedly subjective things. When I talk about a park having "discipline," my opinion of such a trait is definitely different from Kumba's.

It's healthy to have this competitive spirit and to be slightly disappointed if you finished lower than where you wanted to; just don't let it cause any major arguments or deter you from future work.

Emergo Offline

The way X250 builds his parks and his style, is not "my" personal style of building parks (and even if it was, I absolutely could by far not achieve the great things he is making out of it!).
Still, I downright love what he is making and getting out of this game!

One of the things I like so much about this game is that it has the possibility to make so many different things out of it ! And in whatever style/concept/park-idea it is, I just love, enjoy and treasure it when people show skill, creativity, and executing their ideas in a finished map/park. (which shows that they are really going for it, instead of just trying little bits and pieces but never finishing anything; last thing is understandable and no "fault" at all, for after all most important thing of a game is to just have fun with it yourself in whatever way you want, but in terms of "adding to the community" it of course is a bit too meagre).
Many people in this contest (and out of it!) have already showed this skill/creativity etc. (thanks for your parks!!

)

Personally, I cannot get that for many people just one style seems "sacred" and that they reject all other styles, denying themselves a lot of joy from the possibilities that this game offers. (okay, being that my degree and job, I can explain it psychologically, but let's not get into that!! Iris already did a very good job on that).

Anyway, I extremely appreciate what X250 did with the game, before as well as in this contest (love it!!) and fully agree with Iris and Panic, and with X250 having a (completely deserved imo) "parkmaker-spot" now.

Said this before, but: with parkmakers like X250, RCT-future looks bright imo

iris Offline

Tell me three active parkmakers today that could put out full maps close to the quality of RoB? Tell me one you honestly think is a sure thing for making something better? You probably can, but then again, i beg to differ =/.
Possibly my fault in saying that it wasn't, though i really don't think i left that impression. It's a 'good' park, 'good' just doesn't do much for me.

Fatha', Corkscrewed, Phatage, Toon, Kevin, Turtle, cBass all could theoretically build a better park then ROB if they finished a solo to the best of their ability.

And what's this 'big children' bullshit? You called it hideous parkmaking...which it is obviously not. There have been several of your parks that I personally did not care for at all, yet I still knew they weren't 'hideous parkmaking'. They obviously took talent and skill so I appreciated them for that. Apparently that is something you're incapable of. Your entire post was nothing but one long, childish rant being all defensive. Nobody said you needed to change your mind and like this park...I couldn't care less if you like this park, I've often had opposite views from you in the past anyway.

And anyone who denies the game is changing is either blind, stupid, or some mixture of the two. One simple look at stuff like Aero's Wormwood and Euroscape compared to stuff such as The Time Machine, Ghost Cell Crisis, etc. makes it pretty damn obvious that they're have been huge advances in terms of RCT2. More usage of quarter block tiles, more custom scenery, more elaborate architecture, more hacked coaster possibilities then before, etc. Whether or not it's a change for the better is strictly opinion but the fact that parkmaking has changed at all is fact.

Ge-Ride Offline

It would seem that the learning curve has increased as well. In order to understand the organization of the park, much more needs to be analyzed. Many people here have been parkmaking since the game came out in 1999. It would seem that the longer any given person has been in the RCT community, the more they would know about looking at the park as a whole. Since then, the style of parkmaking has evolved into more of a parkmaking challenge than a game. The focus has changed from the sheer entertainment value of the piece of the whole to more okf a jigsaw philosophy, or how many details you can have and how they fit together as a whole.

The jigsaw puzzle approach will only take us so far. There comes a point where the mind can no longer put together the puzzle in one look. One of two things shall happen from this point. Either the viewer will enjoy what details they have found, or shall examine the park as a whole. X250 has so many ideas in this park, that we begin to intentionally ignore the little details. You can only drink so much alcohol if you want to avoid a hangover.

Evil WME Offline

Me not playing RCT for years has nothing to do with anything. I don't have an elitist mentality towards everything. If I did, and acted as if everything was 'hideous parkmaking', then sure...you could make the case of "who am I to diss other people's parks". I'm nothing but supportive of people's parks though, and almost always find the best in even the lesser quality things. By your way of thinking I guess guys like Panic, cg?, etc. should have absolutely no say in things, despite having a vast knowledge and unbiased opinions?

Whether or not you agree with the way I judge, or anything else is irrelevant. I called you out on a statement you made that was blatanly wrong in my opinion. This is not 'hideous'. It may not be your taste, and that's of course acceptable. But you should perhaps be more selective of your words when judging the work of someone who's just spent 4-5 months building.

Corkscrewed Offline

Can't we all just get along?

Or just change with the game... like me?

Yeah, we all know I rule.

Panic Offline

Some people need to be forward-looking and some people need to be conservative. That's how to guarantee that the game changes well. If there were no people that still promoted vanishing things and things of the past, there would be no guarantee that anyone in the future would remember what good parkmaking is. We might have had everybody cramming their parks with craploads of custom scenery yet not understanding how to make complex building shapes or decent roller coasters. All that might have been lost if there weren't some people that looked back as well as forward.

And it's a self-regulating pattern. There will always be those that promote the past because they fear, perhaps rightly so, what will happen if traditions are forgotten; and thus those traditions will not be forgotten because of the efforts of those people. That's why LL will never die, as seemed to be the fear a few months ago. The art of parkmaking needs LL, and there are those who know that and will continue to promote it in that cause.

Edited by Panic, 06 March 2006 - 02:02 AM.

cg? Offline

Some people are so fixated in what they want to see in a park that they just totally disregard somebody else's vision of one.

yes, well, isn't that called taste? i do have the ability to appreciate anything, and everything, for exactly what it is, but, when i do, everything is perfect and nothing is wrong, and that creates an endless series of difficulties. for instance, it would mean every park ever made would deserve to win this competition, and, well, then, what's the point of having it?

judging parks based upon what you want to see is the only way to judge them, really, and so that's how i do it. this park isn't what i want to see, and it isn't what a lot of people want to see, and, so, there you go. who cares? stop bickering! it's just a game, and a rather silly one, too.

Evil WME Offline

do i need to quote my own post now? It starts to get quite confusing when you're using my posts to speak, doesn't it?

In my opinion everyone has a choice to say what he/she wants, and there needs to be no iris to stand above that EVEN IF that person calls something hideous parkmaking which it in iris' opinion obviously is not.

I should have phrased it more carefully but i've come around to say that quite a few times now. "I looked at the park and found it not particularly aestetic, and it didn't catch my interest." Ok? can we just forget about what i said earlier and replace it with what i just wrote within the parentheses?

JKay Offline

I see this topic sparked some heated, yet healthy discussions. WME, sorry if I'm droning here but I had to jump in.

X, I really wouldn't let any negatives here get you down. I've noticed this happen in a few of the PT2 park threads, including cbass' and mine. Its just that classic battle between objectivity and subjectivity thats more obvious in this thread than the others. cg?, Iris and WME have already pounded this to death, but I'll throw in some of my words since I've got some down time here at work right now.

In terms of parkmaking, the first impression of objectivity can appear to be degaratory towards you as a parkmaker but its really not. This contest is highly competitive and thrives on objectivity and therefore, the results (99% at least) are determined by the perceptual or sensual feelings one gets from the park regardless of who built it. Its hard for me to believe that WME meant any harm to you X. Maybe he could've said it in a nicer way, but he based his opinion solely on what he thought of the park and not as much on you personally or your potential.

Like cg? said, last time I checked RCT was still "just a game" and I think its important that we all remember that when discussions like this come up. I jumped on Phatage in cbass' thread about this same thing and later just realized he was being objective. Bottomline is its impossible to impress every RCT critic, especially here at NE. If you were able to impress everyone, the game would probably be boring because there would be no reason to show your work if you knew everyone was gonna like it (enigmatic-ism :lol:

) My new slogan:

Choose projects you enjoy and have fun building. Share them. Learn from them. Repeat as needed.

Congrats on the parkmaker spot X!. I agree that this work is worthy of that designation now. I wish I had placed this high!

iris Offline

Whoa...apparently I edited your post instead of quoting it. That was weird.

Titan Offline

OMG!!!!!! I've made an astonishing discovery!

X250 is a cheating, stealing, Micky D's freak!!!!!!!

Attached Files

x250mcDs.JPG (193.91KB)
downloads: 98

Regulatin Offline

AHH! ALL HELL HAS BROKE LOOSE! :lol:

X250 Offline

lmao Titan.

Still though, it would have been so much better if you didn't show me that on AIM two seconds before you posted it.

-X-

G Force Offline

can't people build parks that actually run at something higher than 2fps anymore?!?!

i suppose a younger me would have adored it, but, now that i'm 87 years old, or something like that, i've gotten dull, i suppose, and just kind of want something pretty to look at, or, at the very least, something that seems like it was made with some consideration for the audience. this isn't that.

Idk why but I just find this response hilarious.

Always really liked this park, not much else like it. Certain nostalgia it brings back of early Web 2.0 days, before internet giants like Facebook, Reddit, Twitter or even Youtube sort of took over everything

Jaguar	85%
Cocoa	80%
csw	80%
G Force	80%
RWE	80%
Scoop	80%
Camcorder22	75%
bigshootergill	70%
CoasterCreator9	70%
Faas	70%
posix	70%
saxman1089	70%
75.50%

Park / The Time Machine

58 Comments

iris Offline

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