H2H4 / The Hurricanes Win H2H4

Guys, H2H2 had a crapload of forfeits and unfinished/rushed parks too. As far as I know this season wasn't much worse.

What we need to do is find ways to make RCT parkmaking more fun. RCT is at heart a hobby, as someone else said. It's a leisure activity. If it's not fun to do, fewer people are going to want to play it. Simple as that. I think a lot of what killed this H2H season is the fact that for some reason, parkmaking began to seem like a duty, not a leisure. That's probably, as Ride6 said, because of the time of year at which it occurred - as school was starting. "I got homework, but I have to finish this RCT park by Sunday too" was a mentality I faced a couple times. That's no fun. That's not going to cause people to make good parks like fun and imagination will. That's also the mistake that Iris made towards the end of his term here, I think - forcing people to do work or else lose their status, and things like that.

I can't personally pinpoint what caused RCT parkmaking to be fun formerly, during the era of LL spotlights and runner-ups, because I didn't participate in it at all then. But I think part of it was trying to make a park or something that raised the bar, in a sort of drawn-out can-you-top-this mentality with parks and such. At least there was that sense of competition with others, as an individual rather than as part of a team. If we can bring that sense of fun competition that inspires creativity back, we'll be good.

Deadlines aren't much fun. The absence of them is more fun and relaxed. I just sense that that motivation to raise the bar, and to build a park that tops others, has kind of been lost for some reason. Anyone else notice how no one really seems to want to trump Rivers of Babylon or Isole Calabria anymore, instead just accepting that those parks will be at the top? Disney's Discovery Island was once at that position, yet people topped it more than a dozen times because they had the motivation to do so.

I don't exactly know how we would go about restoring that motivation without deadlines. Maybe give out prizes to people whose solos made it into the top 25 parks ever made at the end of each year, like the awarding of an official "NE Legend status" to those people? People would then be motivated by being remembered as RCT legends, perhaps.

But we need to figure out a way to motivate people to make full-size parks and designs and such that doesn't include deadlines and doesn't stamp out the fun of doing so. If we can do that, we will be in the clear.

well I've heared a couple of times now that people don't finnish that much solo's anymore and that the community is dying .... but I doubt this .... isn't the real problem that it takes a lot longer to finnish a really large park and most people who start this stop because they don't see it ever end....

I know that there are some really cool parks in the making at the moment, and if everybody got some time they could be finnished somewhere next year.

What panic was talking about is true, sometimes rct seemed like a duty to me to but in a other way. I wanted to build on my solo but because I had the H2H park also I began to build on that one so that one would be finnished. this was the real problem this season I think....the people that are still active players all have a lot of project running (club parks, guest spots, contest parks etc), because they need to spread there time to all these projects it takes so long to finnish those solo's.

In my eye's Kumba is doing a gread job and he can't be blamed for the maybe dissapointing H2H season, we've seen some great parks and the season contiued good. now only that park of the hurricanes need to be posted .

Hey i wasn't crying about it, more dissapointed with what could have been a great season but all the unfinished parks (which themselves would have been amazing finished) and forfeits just outweigh the amazing parks imo. It's as if all the unfinished parks pick up more attention and then people neglect the better ones, giving the feeling that the season was poor when in fact it's got the best RCT work to date.

Besides it was a parody of the comic store guy in the simpsons, therefore a joke and not to be taken seriously.

It is just a game and you seem to act as if i need this site to fulfill my RCT needs, which i don't.

PWEASE DON'T BAN ME!

On a serious note though congrats on the win and i'm looking forward to the award cermony.

Yay! we win!!!!
Wait. Where have I been lately?

Some amazing posts there. That alone shows people are still here and still care.

Panic, you're amazing. Nail-on-head. Now people seem to think that you need to have contests every few months to keep interest. Back "in the day" the whole community was a massive competition. The "top this" mentality was king, and people built parks "against" one another in essence. I loved that. It was amazing. If only i'd been at the head of it all like some lucky people such as Nate, Pyro, Corky and Ed. Constant strive to build a better park that the one just released. There's nothing bad about this, it's the way people are and it made it really fun. You never knew when someone else was going to release something amazing.

Can we get that back? I see no reason why not. In my opinion, no one has built an RCT2 park since Isole Calabria that tops it. (LL on the other hand, who can argue with BGSS?) I ask myself why not, since there are a pretty large number of people out there who could do it, with a little effort. In no partiular order, Steve, Xcoaster, Corky, Tyandor, Pyro, Fatha, Ed, Evil WME, Janus, John, Kevin, Phatage, Titan, metalface, Posix (probably), RRP, Toon, x-sector and probably loads more that i've forgotten. If any of these people (not all of them active, most pretty damn inactive) wanted to, they could build that fabled "best park ever" in RCT2. Maybe they just don't want to. That's something we have to accept. But then other people need to step up to the plate and strive towards a level that no-one's yet reached. Don't be content with finishing a 30x30 minipark, because truthfully no one cares. It could the best damn 30x30 minipark ever, but i'll always be happier to see a large park. Don't be happy with average work. Do more, build another park. You'll get better.

Finally, RCT Fiesta.

damn... this topic is choc-full of great stuff...

anyways, I would love to be able to do that... put out parks monthly, with the skill of some people around here. Especially Turtle, X250, Fatha', and anyone else who is/was on that NE Parkmakers list. And everyone tells me to just keep trying, but I don't seem to be getting better at the game, in any aspect. My designs are actually declining, my building style hasn't been improving much, and even when I look at foliage compared to a spotlight, or hell, even a runner-up I say "Shit, that looks amazing". I am doing a 190x190 park (what the hell was I thinking) and half only finished about half of it, and fear it will never get done. Hoewever, the point is, I've been giving my best effore to this park, and now there's the design here; "Pacifica", which makes my park look like crap. So I think I've more or less leveled about ten notches below NewElement.

Everyone here at NE should be proud they have so much in their past. I never counted, but you guys must have made at least 50 spotlights, and that's a huge amount of amazing and stunning parks. And I agree with what some people are saying, we may need to just adjust to this new "downfall" of RCT sites. Hold off on the competitions a while to see if anything gets done. I would gladly take part in a design competition, but absolutely couldn't do anything for the PT3...

There, my bitchin's over.

EDIT: I just realized my post looks exactly the same as Turtle's... not intended at all...

Edited by Ling, 29 December 2006 - 12:01 PM.

I think part of what killed the motivation to finish a full-scale park and raise the bar in the RCT2 era is the fact that it's so damn hard to do so with miniature custom scenery and detail in RCT2 as opposed to with raised land buildings, as in traditional LL. It's like making a painting vs. making a mosaic (well, not THAT much more detailed, but you get the idea). To compensate for the fact that it's much more difficult and takes more time, people should realize that at their fingertips is the potential to build the greatest and most detailed park ever constructed. This also applies in LL with the Codex trainer. The coasters have to be good, for sure. The theming and buildings have to flow and make sense, and the aesthetics have to work. But once you get clear of those things, your greatly detailed RCT2 custom scenery park could have a shot at the top 5 ever. It's no accident that Isole Calabria has been so highly regarded - it's one of the first parks to approach that level. But it only cracked the surface as far as what's possible.

On another note, I realize that the NE "school of parkmaking" I proposed would probably tank. It's no fun to turn a hobby into school, simple as that. But I would like to see some improvement in coaster building abilities around the community, for one, and I think that something that could help would be to give newcomers models of good coaster building. So maybe a couple light contests in building coasters between people that were qualified and that emphasized layout, not theming, wouldn't go amiss.

So maybe a couple light contests in building coasters between people that were qualified and that emphasized layout, not theming, wouldn't go amiss.

^ LL contests. Lets do it. Hell, i'll do it.

Post a challenge once every two weeks or something - Best Inverted Coaster. Best Virginia Reel. Like QFTB-X but without direct one on one face offs. You can judge it. I'll judge if you want.

I don't think you should have JUST a coaster though, theming is important too. But a small themed coaster contest in LL won't take more than a couple of weeks per coaster. And people can pick and choose which ones they want to try. No prizes for winning or anything, just the satisfaction of building something nice. After all, the motivation has to come from within.

whoahahah, kids, what's going on??
honestly, that's a little too much to read for me for now.

just from what i picked up...

"community is changin?".
dude, better look at the naked butt of the situation.
this isn't just a change. it's a "fall apart".

most of you who posted h2h was cool, we should be happy, things are just gonna get different, you gotta deal with it...

you know, that makes a lot of sense to me. it's very rational, yeah.

but you can only say that because you don't know what the early days of ne were like.
where i would go here getting a fascination overkill on a daily basis and spending nights just looking at new releases, talking to people, trying to build my own stuff, whearas today i come here and just get... frustrated.

and angry

Guys, look at it this way:

H2H4 ending means we can now focus on NE3.

And that WILL revitalize the site, because we'll be introducing new ways that allow people to produce stuff for the site that don't necessarily require full-fledged parks. Plus everything will be new and spiffy.



Now if only I could work on my own parks...

P.S. Yeah, a break of several months is definitely in line. Don't be surprised if H2H5 doesn't even start till 2008 (we've gone about 1.5 years between starts of seasons, on average, actually).

^Yeah, that should be cool to get those things on NE3 =).

I think maybe one other thing to maybe try to encourage is becoming a Parkmaker again. People used to strive to be Parkmaker because it was a status, you got to participate in awesome group projects, it was one step closer to winning a Spotlight for some people, etc. etc... I mean, open up the Runner Ups (and some Spotlights as well) pages on NE. Most of those parks are the results of people striving to become Parkmaker (now I'm not saying that's the only reason they're there, obviously people got enjoyment out of the game and rct is in NO WAY supposed to be work to get a status... tho there are a lot of great posts about that here so listen to Panic or Turtle on that =) ) Now tho it just seems to be something to sit on once you achieve it (and a lot of the new ones became inactive as well)....

I dunno... just a thought that occured to me.

maybe a little sugestion to is to make a page where verything is explained and where you can read how to become a parkmaker etc because its unclear for a lot of newcomers here .

^get a spotlight... isn't that like the only requirement?

^ The only problem is that NE has such high standards for a park to be classified as a "Spotlight". Few years ago, there were plenty of people building great parks that it pushed everyone to reach those standards. Now (as others have said above) it takes to damn long to fill these large scale parks with the detail needed to win a spotlight. I'm not saying NE should lower it's standards of being a Parkmaker or winning a Spotlight. NE created the Super Runner-ups a couple of years ago and that helped some good parks get some recognition. I always wanted to have a "Spotlight" park but it was becoming work to build a park to that standard. It even burned me out trying to come up with a new concept that would perhaps make the grade. Thats why I changed my mind set and started building the Marriott Project. It brought me back to having fun with the park and I know it will not win spotlight because of the way I'm going to release it. Knowing that, it took the presure off for some reason and I'm having a blas with it.

Perhaps NE needs an official Parkamer status that is not a full Parkmaker but something that is a step below so that there is a realistic goal to achieve. With the exception of a few out there, once someone makes "Parkmaker" you never see them again. That may or may not be a true statement but that is how I percieve it.

Again as other have said, the comminuty is changing, not dying.

James - rctnw

Well we can all sit here and talk eloquently about these things, but nothing is going to come of it unless we put them into action.

The emphasis that used to be placed on becoming a parkmaker definitely got killed because the site ran out of space and no new parkmaker pages could be added. So someone was technically a parkmaker in conversation, but did not have his own page, and did not really have an official place on the parkmaker list yet. It looks as though that problem is being solved and the massive back-up of parkmakers will be eased, so that's good. The other problem, unfortunately, is that a great number of those who were made parkmaker during the first RCT2 generation were one-hit wonders and will not deliver. So we need to encourage a new generation of people to step up and assume the throne.

What are the benefits of being a parkmaker that would be motivations for others to become it, other than the title and the status? Well, there's the Pro Tour, which is good. But I don't think it's enough, seeing as how it's also deadline restricted. We should come up with more benefits and more opportunities that only Parkmakers have a sure place in being able to participate in. Anyone have ideas that we could put into motion?

Also, who else would be interested in the idea that Turtle and I were talking about, of frequent coaster layout contests with mild theming to show newcomers how it's done?

well two things a parkmaker always need is space to host his images and space to host his parks.
that should be offered to a parkmaker in the first place.
besides that maybe a parkmaker could decide which parks become the next spotligth or whatever to, so it becomes a sort of judge to (if he or she wants it).
Also I think parkmakers should exchange the knowledge more, maybe a special knowlege database for parkmakers where they can explain things for each other will also motivate people to become parkmaker so they learn new secrets.

The idea of contests that require not that much work but give some nice results is fine, but I tought there will be an option in NE3 that also features somethings like this (or am I wrong ? ).

to help newcomers (and old builders) is always good, that's why I will set the example tomorrow and release some tut's , I need to finnish one last tut now and than it will be released .

Perhaps NE needs an official Parkamer status that is not a full Parkmaker but something that is a step below so that there is a realistic goal to achieve.

A "Junior-Parkmaker" perhaps? That idea is so crazy it just might work. I hope the management is open to that idea.

Again as other have said, the comminuty is changing, not dying.

Also, who else would be interested in the idea that Turtle and I were talking about, of frequent coaster layout contests with mild theming to show newcomers how it's done?

I would.

Well two things a parkmaker always need is space to host his images and space to host his parks.
Besides that maybe a parkmaker could decide which parks become the next spotlight or whatever to, so it becomes a sort of judge to (if he or she wants it).
Also I think parkmakers should exchange the knowledge more, maybe a special knowlege database for parkmakers where they can explain things for each other will also motivate people to become parkmaker so they learn new secrets.

I think all 3 of those ideas are great.

Edited by ride_exchanger, 30 December 2006 - 07:12 PM.

I wish people would stop trying to predict the future of RCT and NE, all we can no is focus on the present. I think H2H4 did start to become annoying, many times I would be working on a park wishing I was working on my solo insted, I think thats one reason why my work dropped off on the zoo a little (Tho that reptile thing was kick-ass!) I remember talking to iris right before H2H4 started and he said he agreed with me that we needed a good sized gap since we were just coming off the PT2, but guess what, a few days later sign-ups were posted and people did not have much of a chance to get back to there solos.

Honestly I think that we should never have a contest as big as H2H4 again, people did not care in the end and that should not happen. Add to the fact that your on a team and theres some peer pressure to go long with everything else. The PT's seem to work better coz it's an individual contest and I will keep that in mind down the road when NE is ready for another contest.

Also talked about here were Spotlights and Runner-Ups, they will come, we just had 2 from guys coming off H2H4. I am not as picky when it comes to posting parks as iris and Cork who stated that "NE will not post parks for the sake of posting parks" but I'll do that if that parks good and I am also more giving when I feel a lot of hard work is put in, you can't forget the hours guys put into these thing. It is true that RCT2 parks take alot of time but they do not need to be jam packed with details, I mean look at CP6's recent runner-up, it was a fiarly simple formula almost like sloB had, and it could have snagged a bigger prize with a bigger map.

NE Parkmakers are talked about too and they always come and go. Right now I think he got an awesome group of parkmakers that should grow.

How do you become a NE parkmaker? We yes a spotlight will give you a spot by default as will winning the best Non-NE Parkmaker awards like Posix, Phatage and myself have. The other way is to be active here at NE and share your parks, if they are good you will be known soon enough, I watch the AD. Also don't we have the option on a post in the AD to attach a screen of normal size? If we don't I'll add that so hosting won't be an issue.

I don't think we need a group of upcoming parkmakers or jr parkmakers, that seems a little silly to me when I regularly update my on the rader topic, I belive I listed about 25 people on the last one. Also feel free to post with your own lists after me, I don't mind. I think the fact that new people still show up posting there parks and screens is great sign for NE.

"n00bs" are pretty much baby parkmakers, tho i'll say... baby hampster parkmakers, as the "Mommy Hampster" or NE parmaker/mod sometimes decide to devourer some of the n00bs, but the ones who are not eaten thrive and make it to non-parkmaker status and then maybe NE parkmaker status with a Hampster wheel (NE parkmaker page).

As we still have n00bs coming in just about every week I think we still got that cycle to go through with each of them, so I doubt NE will be dieing anytime soon. Also hosting is fairly cheap, I could pay for NE for 10 years or so esay even if down the road it becomes more of an archive.

I don't think we need to deploy any wild ideas to "Save NE" I think things are going well, but H2H4 did push most of are best parkmakers pretty far.

Thanx for all your comments, sorry it took me so long to get around to reading them, I am also trying to end that spotlight drought you know

oo... so there's been submssions...

EDIT: OMG only short post in the topic!

Edited by Ling, 30 December 2006 - 10:09 PM.

It's quite simple really. RCT was a hugely popular game four years ago and it's popularity has slowly declined as bigger and better games have come out. Back in the day parkmakers would appear and disappear without hardly being noticed. Naturally with that many hands stirring the pot there was a fairly regular stream of top quality parks. People may not remember this, but people would finish whole solo parks in a couple of weeks before RCT2 came out and before NE spotlights really raised the bar to ridiculous heights. Four or five coasters, your standard assortment of buildings and paths, fill it up with trees and you have yourself a park. It was not at all uncommon for people to release more than 6 parks per year. The biggest difference I've noticed between building a park in LL and building a park in RCT2 is how small the pieces are in RCT2. In the time it takes to fill four or five squares with objects you could have completed a whole corner of a park back in the day. And that's not much of an exaggeration. Add to that bigger maps, higher expectations, a lot more contests, and a lot less active RCT players overall and it's easy to see why the output has gone way down.

I think people tend to exaggerate how active the parkmaking was back then. Yeah a lot of people were making parks, but a lot of them were not very good either. The big difference is in the effect on the community. There was always a feeling of activity going on back then. Yeah a lot of it was cookie-cutter or mostly empty, but a lot was going on and that kept people shuttling through and dropping comments which fostered this whole feeling of there really being an RCT community. You could be away from NE for a couple of hours and come back to find new posts everywhere. Now you could go away for days and not miss much. That's the big difference I think. Not that there's less parkmaking, but that there's less of a feeling of community. And I don't think you change that by hosting more contests. I think you change that by encouraging people to post what they're working on and comment on other people's work and ask questions and get answers. That's how people make friends and improve their parks and have fun. That's what I remember the most anyway. I've been around RCT fan sites for a long time and I never made all that much considering how long I've been doing it. Most of my RCT output was in the posts I made on the forums talking to people about the game.