RCT Discussion / OpenRCT: advantages and disadvantages

If you need to swap objects on your multiplayer park A, the easiest route for me seems to be to temporarily load irrelevant park B on the server, then use parkdat to swap the objects in the park A savegame, then load park A again. Or instead of parkdat have another instance of the game running.

Here are some statuses on your suggestions if interested @Liampie
 
 "- As said before, the tile inspector is sorely missed, and the console would be nice to have as well. I'm also missing the object selector. "
        --- The tile inspector in MP has an issue opened about it and will probably be implemented #5021   - About the object selector, as it has to sync across all computers, it often leads to crashes and/or disconnections if the clients joined don't have the object/doesn't sync up with the objects the servers map use and the other user use. That's the reason why pre-built rides are removed, people who didn't have the ride saved on their computer would crash. About the console, most changes are locally as it doesn't sync up with the server.
  
"- In the permissions window, the 'default user group' is not hidden away well enough."
        --- That's something I can agree on a bit, created a issue about it #5033
 
"- Spammers are a problem sometimes."
        --- Indeed impersonations and spammers are a problem, but a IP banning system has been discussed before and will not be implemented, but, a central authorization server will be put in place #3155 in the future
 
"- Similar to the 'Show recent messages' button that has a log of in-game messages, there should be a similar button with the chat log for like the last hour or so."
        --- Scrolling chat has been suggested #4754
 
"- There should be the option to have a welcome message/window pop up when you join,"
        --- Think this was going to be part of a commit where it used server greetings (been suggested before) but it seems like it doesn't work right #4913 #4193 - BUG
 
"- Things like these shouldn't be restricted to just the host, 'server management' like that should be a seperate permission."
        --- To my knowledge, not possible even tho' it would make it easier, would be harder to implement for a smaller benefit
 
"- We use signs to communicate in the park, like "someone finish my building" or "Liampie will come back and finish this"."
        --- Map marking#3285
 
"- A bug: repainting track pieces with alternative colours is not registering for other users."
       --- Known bug that has been around long :v #3832
 
Didn't write up all ideas in this post as it would get too long

The command is "open object_selection". Even if you're the server, you'll still have to force all clients to disconnect if you want this to work ... which means you might as well just stop the server temporarily and change it offline.

 

 

I was talking about the tile inspector

#4754 would definitely be one of the big quality of life requests, surprised that wasn't implemented before chatlogs were.  Scrollable or resizeable would alleviate some issues, and maybe scalable text - can be pretty small.

 

Unlike Liam I don't have an issue with chatlog announcements of server events - "user join", "user d/c (reason)", etc.  - and think they'd be fine if the issue of limited chat space is resolved.  

 

The first thing I do on join is open the multiplayer window to see who's online.  Unless I'm missing a way to do that quicker it almost feels like it should be open on join by default.

 

 

#5033 Was one of my complaints as well.

It actually reads the sprites from the csg1.dat file from RCT1. Then, changing one constant in the code is sufficient.

 
Okay, so can you explain again please why you can't just quickly compile an LL-version of ORCT2?

Unlike Liam I don't have an issue with chatlog announcements of server events - "user join", "user d/c (reason)", etc.  - and think they'd be fine if the issue of limited chat space is resolved.

 

Until you encounter a spammer, or multiple people try to join the server and all failing. Every person joining takes up three lines. Multiple people joining, multiples of three. The chat is easily clogged up with non-conversation.

Okay, so can you explain again please why you can't just quickly compile an LL-version of ORCT2?

g1.dat and csg1.dat are just lists of sprites, no structure. You can't just swap the resource files, you would get garbage output. You'd have to pair up every base sprite ID with it's equivalent in RCT1. Which you can do, if you want, but it still won't be exactly right, because the sprites aren't structured the same way - not every sprite in RCT2 will have an RCT1 equivalent. This was apparent when I ported the Junior coaster trains - in RCT1, there are 16 frames to a rotation. In RCT2, there are 32 frames. The result is that the ported trains run with a slight bias and tend to lean in on turns. And the only way to fix that is a new object format that explicitly supports the RCT1 sprites.

 

OpenRCT2 uses RCT2's data structures internally. It has RCT2's limitations. It is far from trivial to implement a seperate OpenLL, though nobody is stopping you from forking the project and doing it yourself (seriously, have a go, and see if it's as simple as you seem to think it is). If you were prepared to break compatibility with RCT2 I'm sure you could adapt it to load LL graphics and better support LL features, but it would be a major refactor and not just a compile time switch.

 

Some of the RCT1 features are just as hard to implement as removing the object limits or adding custom track styles. And that's not to say they won't be done, but they can't be done yet. These data structures will be changed eventually - the developers have said as much, but that shouldn't be done lightly and it probably won't be soon. The new format needs to be flexible enough to accomodate future development of the game, and it will break forward compatibility - with a new format, it will no longer be possible to open an OpenRCT2 save with the vanilla game, so they will probably want to make sure that everything people used trainers for is supported.

 

Gymnasiast seems to be the one implementing most of the LL stuff (and he actually has RCT1 and doesn't hate it), so maybe talk to him, as he will understand this better than I do.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Although I have to say that nobody in the dev team hates RCT1, it's just that I actually like it a lot. And my aim is to reintroduce RCT1 features so people can have the best of both worlds.

I didn't mean to imply that the dev team doesn't like RCT1, I meant to say I don't.

No reason to be defensive. I never implied anything was easy - you have added this. From Gymnasiast's line I quoted, it simply read as though changing very little would enable adequate reading of RCT1's files. Clearly that's not the case. If there was anything I was getting at, then the unspoken animosity towards RCT1, which has become apparent now. It's alright - you have a right to an opinion. I'm just trying to gage how many hopes to have for LL.

I'm just trying to gage how many hopes to have for LL.

 

Probably not many, if X7123M3-256 is expected to work on it

No reason to be defensive.

I apologise if the tone of my post was too harsh. I'm just getting tired of repeatedly stating the same thing every time you complain that LL support isn't perfect yet, even though the comments made by Gymnasiast and others indicate that that's the eventual goal.

I never implied anything was easy - you have added this

The phrasing of your posts suggested that - particularly this one:

why you can't just quickly compile an LL-version of ORCT2?

Like I say, the post was not meant to attack you, it was just intended to explain why LL isn't supported as well as RCT2 just yet, and that that doesn't mean the developers don't care about LL support.

Probably not many, if X7123M3-256 is expected to work on it

I don't intend to work on any LL related features (except for porting of LL rides when specifically requested to do so). As I said, I don't like it and I have never played it.

But I'm not the OpenRCT2 developers, and they have stated repeatedly that they intend to support LL, and they are taking steps toward that goal. I mean, we have boosters now (even if they are pathetically weak without a supplemental chain), and I didn't think that would happen without a new file format.

No worries X7, all cool.

I think the LL support is kinda redundant and I think making progress on the actual openrct2 is more important because LL is played by 5 people here... we can't even get enough votes at a regular basis for LL releases.

That's a good point BG, but I do still like the idea of eventually getting LL support going for a few reasons:
-Nostalgia.
-Honestly I can't get my rct1 disks to even install on my laptop, and the GOG version isn't working for me either. So having LL support in Open would solve those issues.
-Being able to access all of the rich LL history here at NE.
-I really do miss some of the LL functionality that RCT2 didn't incorporate for some reason. Some of these the Open devs are starting to incorporate, such as booster track, which is nice. But the others (at the time of this writing) include the expanded land wall and land tile texture options in the land tool, and all of the footpath options. Being able to select any path type, with any Queue color, and then mix it with any support type, is sorely missed in my opinion.

Other than that, yes, I agree 2 should be the focus. But seeing these features would make me very happy.

Both the land and path tool expansions are some of the more noteable requests some have made on the ORCT2 forums, we do have a test of Good Knight Park in ORCT2 with LL styled Terrapaints, which is going to be one of the things implemented when we don't use the original file system.

imlegos, I understand you're trying to help, but I said all of that already, and you're not a team member. Please leave it to janisozaur and me.

The path desyncing in multiplayer is driving me absolutely off the wall, anyway that can be fixed or at least reduced?

Path desyncing? I have no idea what you mean. File a bug.

Path desyncing? I have no idea what you mean. File a bug.

 

Like when I'm building a path in MP, but the cursor jumps around and switches direction and height.

 

Or when I build a path, place a wall over it with ZC so it is still connected... but when I re-join the server the path is dis-connected due to the wall.