General Chat / Bush after the Iraq war

No matter what your stance on Bush, this is interesting.

As we approach the end of the year I think it is important to share a few thoughts about what you've accomplished directly, in some cases, and indirectly in many others. I am speaking about what the Bush Administration and each of you has contributed by wearing the uniform, because the fact that you wear the uniform contributes 100% to the capability of the nation to send a few onto the field to execute national policy. As you read about these achievements you are a part of I would call your attention to two things:

1. This is good news that hasn't been fit to print or report on TV.

2. It is much easier to point out the errors a man makes when he makes
the tough decisions, rarely is the positive as aggressively pursued.

Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1...

... the first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active
duty.

... over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens.

... nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning.

... the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.

... on Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the
prewar average.

... all 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open,
as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.

... by October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools - 500
more than scheduled.

... teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.

... all 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.

... doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam.

... pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700
tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.

... the Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations to
Iraq's children.

... a Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27,000
kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of
farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and
women.

... we have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and
over two-thirds of the potable water production.

... there are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000 by
year-end.

... the wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes
to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and
towns.

... 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time
customers are opening accounts daily.

... Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.

... the central bank is fully independent.

... Iraq has one of the worlds most growth-oriented investment and banking
laws.

... Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.

... satellite TV dishes are legal.

... foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and
extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for "minders" and other
government spies.

... there is no Ministry of Information.

... there are more than 170 newspapers.

... you can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.

... foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.

... a nation that had not one single element - legislative, judicial or
executive - of a representative government, now does.

... in Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils.
Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the
city council elected its new chairman.

... today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional
organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.

... 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in
Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government.

.... the Iraqi government regularly participates in international events.
Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen
international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab
League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over 30
Iraqi embassies around the world.

... Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't.

... for the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites
celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.

... the Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large
and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.

... Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the
zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation,
torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics.

... children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with
the government.

... political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or
are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.

... millions of long-suffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.

... Saudis will hold municipal elections.

... Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents.

... Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.

... the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian -- a
Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and for peace.

... Saddam is gone.

... Iraq is free..

... President Bush has not faltered or failed.

... Yet, little or none of this information has been published by the Press
corps that prides itself on bringing you all the news that's important.

Iraq under US lead control has come further in six months than Germany did
in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII. Military deaths
from fanatic Nazi's, and Japanese numbered in the thousands and continued
for over three years after WWII victory was declared.

It took the US over four months to clear away the twin tower debris, let
alone attempt to build something else in its place.

Now, take into account that Congress fought President Bush on every aspect
of his handling of this country's war and the post-war reconstruction; and
that they continue to claim on a daily basis on national TV that this conflict
has been a failure.

Taking everything into consideration, even the unfortunate loss of our brothers
and sisters in this conflict, do you think anyone else in the world could
have accomplished as much as the United States and the Bush administration
in so short a period of time?

These are things worth writing about. Get the word out. Write to someone you
think may be able to influence our Congress or the press to tell the story.

Above all, be proud that you are a part of this historical precedent.

So, in other words, it's being turned into a clone of america. One is enough...

Fucking propaganda.



WHERE ARE THE WEAPONS? Bush, Blair and all their spindoctors lied to the world to justify the slaughter of "coalition" forces on unjustified grounds.

but, come on.
is that really helping Iraq.

i mean, good lawd.
they were fine, without us.

Actually, they weren't.

Now, here's my "Everything's O.K." alarm! This will sound every three seconds, unless something isn't okay!

The press reports bad news. That's true no matter what they're talking about. Iraq is no exception.

It can't be turned off! But it, uh, does break easily.

No matter what stance you have on the "war", can't we all be glad that some good did come out of it.

they were fine, without us.

I doubt you know how it felt to be an Iraqi before the war or after. So I wouldn't try to speak for them.

While I can certainly appreciate your pleasure with and patriotism for this country, you seem to want to forget that (and the Universe will back me up on this), more often than not, the end result does NOT justify the means. The fact is, this war was pre-ordained from the moment Bush stole the 2000 election (just ask some of his former cabinet members that he fired for disagreeing with him), and was carried off at our expense (by that I mean MY MONEY), based entirely on lies. Mike, I'd like you to buy a book that I just read. It's a satirical look at the current administration, written by Dan Pirraro (the guy who writes Bizzaro). It's called "The Three Little Pigs Buy the White House". You see, in times of economic uncertainty, and world crisis (which this administration will go down in history as being legendary at creating), nothing pulls a country together faster, especially a country as saccharin and sentimental as this one, as a war. Patriotism, old glory, and all of that bullshit has a surprising way of blinding people to what's really going on. Sadly, America won't pull it's head out of it's ass until all of our Civil Liberties have been stripped away, by the very people purporting to be protecting us.

Anyway, yes Saddam is gone. Goody for Iraq. Let's talk about all of the countless millions of people that Bush,and all of his corporate cronies have slaughtered in the name of big business. When you look at it that way, the blinders come off (unless you're still too busy looking at the shiny baubles on our dead soldiers uniforms, who have given their lives, so that Cheney can own another yacht)

I quite honestly don't give a flying fuck about these supposed positives that came out of the endeavour.
It'll eventually come back to bite America back in the ass, so I'm really just waiting for something to happen.
I really do hope someone is happy, because what goes around come the fuck back around.
This is just what extremist groups want, a basis for an attack on America. We attacked a Muslim nation, so why wouldn't extremist-Muslims do something about it? The terrorists are the true winners, they've succeeded in what they've wanted to do to America, and will only continue to succeed the way things are headed. Sure, we wanted to "free" Iraq, and we did, but look at our government now, ordering foreign airlines to cancel flights based upon a person's name? What the fuck is that? As it turns out, one of the "suspected" terrorists was a child, for Christ's sake. If the US intelligence can fail on something like that, how can the evidence used against Iraq be credible to any extent whatsoever? I don't blame nations for not backing Bush in his press for war.
I don't agree with what we did, but it is done. So what ever happens now happens.
I, for one, won't be the least bit surprised when something does happen.

I'm really starting to see this arrogant, asshole, amoral government that everyone else BUT Americans are seeing. We had no fucking right at all going into Iraq. None. Who in the fuck does our government think they are? We don't need to spend lives based upon factless, bullshit information, we don't need to inflict ourselves upon other governments.

Fuck this "war" and the reasons behind it. It's all worthless, trivial bullshit in the end, anyway.

Bush will win the 04 election

^Thats pactically already happened. He will destroy the candidate no matter who it is. Prepare yourselves for 4 more years of Bush.

And sadly with that fact, prepare yourself for the end of the "American Empire" About time too.

I quite honestly don't give a flying fuck about these supposed positives that came out of the endeavour.
It'll eventually come back to bite America back in the ass, so I'm really just waiting for something to happen.
I really do hope someone is happy, because what goes around come the fuck back around.
This is just what extremist groups want, a basis for an attack on America. We attacked a Muslim nation, so why wouldn't extremist-Muslims do something about it? The terrorists are the true winners, they've succeeded in what they've wanted to do to America, and will only continue to succeed the way things are headed. Sure, we wanted to "free" Iraq, and we did, but look at our government now, ordering foreign airlines to cancel flights based upon a person's name? What the fuck is that? As it turns out, one of the "suspected" terrorists was a child, for Christ's sake. If the US intelligence can fail on something like that, how can the evidence used against Iraq be credible to any extent whatsoever? I don't blame nations for not backing Bush in his press for war.
I don't agree with what we did, but it is done. So what ever happens now happens.
I, for one, won't be the least bit surprised when something does happen.

I'm really starting to see this arrogant, asshole, amoral government that everyone else BUT Americans are seeing. We had no fucking right at all going into Iraq. None. Who in the fuck does our government think they are? We don't need to spend lives based upon factless, bullshit information, we don't need to inflict ourselves upon other governments.

Fuck this "war" and the reasons behind it. It's all worthless, trivial bullshit in the end, anyway.

Wow. I actually agree with you.

Everybody will call the American government and people arrogant and all those other things(which most of the time we are)...but seldom in those comments does that person want to admit they are usually or atleast some of the time one of those people.

... there is no Ministry of Information.

OKay, that one was actually kinda funny.


I agree that we've actually done a lot of good in Iraq. I actually comment the administration in that regard. My main quarrel has always been the fact that we went in unilaterally and overthrew a government. Sure, this time it turned out relatively okay, but who's to say another nation won't someday in the future invade and take over another country and use the same sort of reasoning? It's a dangerous precedent to set, even if it does improve the lives of millions of Iraqis drastically.

In short, it's a risk.

And while Bush has done a lot of good stuff (I'm not going to be unreasonable and take that away from him), he's also let a lot of other stuff go to hell, like civil liberties, environmental regulations, certain corporate economic strategies, and the economy--in the sense that while the stock market has gotten better and the economy has technically improved, it's not been a "real" improvement. It's been a jobless recovery, which helps the big rich CEOs and corporate leaders, but not the middle class and lower class that actually need help.


Now Mike, I'd like to see your superiors provide you with a similar list... about Afghanistan. After all, Hussein was never a direct threat against America, but Bin Laden definitely WAS.

This is just what extremist groups want, a basis for an attack on America. We attacked a Muslim nation, so why wouldn't extremist-Muslims do something about it?

Interesting how everyone seems so desperate for a basis for attacking someone else.

Bush's supposed "basis" was that Saddam was a threat to our nation and that he was producing WMDs. There is absolutely no evidence for either of those cases.

Osama's case for attacking the U.S., as well as what John said, is to pay back white men for the trauma caused by the Crusades, in the 12th century or something. My question is, who gives a FUCK about something that happened 900 years ago? You think it's really gonna make anyone happier to retaliate now?

Can't everyone stop making excuses to attack everyone else and just LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE?

And sadly with that fact, prepare yourself for the end of the "American Empire" About time too.

I hope so. It'd be interesting to see the US take a backseat to some other nation. It's role as superpower has gone on far too long.

Osama's case for attacking the U.S., as well as what John said, is to pay back white men for the trauma caused by the Crusades, in the 12th century or something. My question is, who gives a FUCK about something that happened 900 years ago? You think it's really gonna make anyone happier to retaliate now?

Of course, it was also for the 900+ years in which the western world (of which America is presently the 'leader) has been destroying their economy, society, and property, for our own social and economic gain, following the Crusades, too.

Mike Robbins, you failed to quote your source, which is just the tip of the iceburg. First, we can never trust anyone, including leaders and the media. For example, 1991, the Gulf War, the Americans were using Patriot missiles to stop Iraqi SCUD missles. However, recently on a show called "The 5th Estate" they showed, very convincingly, that the Patriot missiles had a sucsess rate of 0-5% (of knocking scuds out of the air).

The Fifth Estate
April 2, 2003
The Can't-Miss Missile
It was touted as the best defence money could buy against Iraqi Scuds and other deadly missiles. But as the fifth estate's Bob McKeown demonstrated on our February 5 programme, the Patriot missile turned out to be a bust in 1991. And now in the early days of the war in Iraq, it seems as if the Patriot has revealed one more fatal shortcoming. It is having trouble telling the difference between friend and foe. A whole new take on a cautionary tale about military hardware and military obfuscation.

That said, we can say that any Government will make up anything to make you, as a citizen feel better about what actions they took. Many of those numbers are outragously high to be believable, esspeically given costs, time and people power. Even if all those facts were true, Iraq is still not that better off. I wake up everyday and read in the newspaper that another attack happened in Iraq and has injured civilians or Americans.

Always take what the government says with a grain of salt. They do not pratactice politics, but politricks.
However, I guess this proves my whole theory wrong:

I doubt you know how it felt to be an Iraqi before the war or after. So I wouldn't try to speak for them.

k. thnx.
some people, just don't get me

Troll (n): Someone who posts on forums or message boards intending to provoke people and/or annoy them.

anyway.
i want that Howard Dean fellow to win. he's a doctor, after all!

despite Bush's (bush lol) "success", in Iraq, there was really no need to go in. they [the Bush (lol) Administration] basically lied to us, with that whole weapons of mass destruction bullshit. and. that whole thing, with Saddam and bin Laden, being in kahoots. even though the bastards hate each other. and, you know, are always trying to kill the other. but, other than that!

so, really. the motivation for going to "war" with Iraq, was to make us forget, that bin Laden was still out there. and to give Bush (lol) a presidential boner for the election. why don't we just go into every country, where its peoples are oppressed! let's save them! but, no. that is not going to happen. Operation Enduring Freedom, or, whatever, was simply a political front. and Saddam was the victim.

so, suck my cock-a-doodle-doo-a-doodle-doo-a-doodle-doo.

It's all well and good to make yourself feel morally justified in what America has done in Iraq, but the fact of the matter is it has done nothing but further inflame the hatred in the Middle East against the U.S. I think it is vitally important for a nation to evolve at it's own pace, and the U.S. going in and 'freeing' Iraq will likely only prove detrimental to their evolution as a nation. How do you think you would feel as an American if some big brother country decided they didn't like the way your culture and country ran and decided to come in and institute their way of doing things??