General Chat / Bush after the Iraq war

I just gotta but in, if you wanna my reason's for war with Iraq

here : http://forums.nedesi...t=ST&f=1&t=6260


America is an Empire, don't you see it? its not the empire where it controls actual countries. in a way they do, America rigged the elections in Italy and France in the 50's so that the elected officials would bring better ties with the U.S. rather than Soviets. Its the empire that holds the entire world by the balls, economically and militarily threatening. As the years go by, and America continues to grow stronger, nations become bolder, nobody wants to be bullied around forever.

Bush Sr. was in charge of the CIA before he became President, and because he knew his son was running for President, what better way to get daddy and brotha to help you out win the election, aswell as re-start old threat Iraq.

I'm an Arab, and i did'nt exactly saw your point of going after Saddam, yes i hate him, he hit my town twice with scuds killing 19 people in Khobar (a port city on the Persian Gulf). I wore gas mask's through scud threats, and actual strikes...

Yes, i thank America for capturing Saddam, but does anybody know that the CIA had indirectly put him in? and helped him with gaining all those weapons? I thank America for saving Iraqi's from oppression, and Iraq can look forward to a brighter future, faster than when Saddam was in charge.

BUT, America did'nt justify their means, their were no WMD's because Saddam knew better in the 90's. He did though have missles that were beyond what the U.N. called for, that indeed is a matter of National Security for Saddam's old regime, which America through the U.N. forced on Iraq to comply.

plus think about this, lets say Russia (just think about it) successfully invaded America, you would have lost your job, and you would of lost the cash flow from government. That is at the root of a lot of Iraqi's hatred, that despite the joyous end of Saddam's reign did reality set in, that they ENTIRE country would have to be rebooted and...

be turned into another American puppet

Horray, Iraq is doing better. Now let me ask you this: How much better off is America under Bush II?




Unfortunatly, it's almost certain the Bush will be here for another 4 years. After bagging Saddam, he's fucking invincible. He'll have to get caught screwing a fat intern to get thrown out of Washington now...

Bush Sr. lost the 1992 election hugely because he looked at his watch, as if bored, during one of the debates.

So during the 2004 debates, someone needs to sneak a chip into Bush Jr's watch that's set to vibrate near the end of the debate. When Bush looks at his watch to see what's going on the election will be Dean's.

or maybe dirty little secrets get uncovered...

whatever happened to all those "intelligence leaks"
oh lets care 'bout the agents family (who are probably dead now) so that they won't be harmed was the excuse, even after 500+ Americans are getting killed in Iraq, and thousands slaughtered in the War's wake.

I'm gonna post some pictures of what your shock and awe campaigned did to the Iraqi people.

BE FOREWARNED, if you don't have a strong stomach for real life blood don't GO HERE! got it?
these are the photos of the the Shock and Awe aftermath, of your president's war of a lie.

http://groups.msn.co...togallery1.msnw

http://scoop.co.nz/m...es/?s=warimages

http://groups.msn.co...smassacres.msnw


THIS is why i hate your president.

edit - swear words cut out, just got into the heat of the moment.

Of course, Bush will tell you that civilian casualties are inevitable, and that the ends justified the means, but try tell that to the family of the guy who's head ended up folded open like a popped balloon, or that kid who lost his leg due to a blast, or the grandfather who had to pull his own dead granddaughter out of the rubbage.

Those people will tell you that at least under Hussein, their children, siblings, and parents were not being blown apart.


Now, to be fair, there are two sides to every issue. Bush's war did good, but it also did terrible harm. The fact that he went into Iraq alone, against the will of the international community, and did this, is what most concerns. Don't tell me that France and Germany had secret trade connections with Iraq and were corrupted, etc... etc... The US has been just as shady in its international dealings as well.

I'm gonna post some pictures of what your shock and awe campaigned did to the Iraqi people.

So, there's not the slightest possibility that some of these pictures could be from the results of suicide bombings and not the coalition and these websites want the average American liberal to believe this was done by the coalition? Websites can lie too.

First, we can never trust anyone, including leaders and the media. For example, 1991, the Gulf War, the Americans were using Patriot missiles to stop Iraqi SCUD missles. However, recently on a show called "The 5th Estate" they showed, very convincingly, that the Patriot missiles had a sucsess rate of 0-5%

So if we can't trust media, why are you trusting this media source? It's a TV show you are, very convincingly, basing facts on. It was actually the other way around (in success rate). SCUD's only hit 0-5% of intended targets, not Patriot's hitting 0-5% of SCUD's.

Let's talk about all of the countless millions of people that Bush,and all of his corporate cronies have slaughtered in the name of big business. When you look at it that way, the blinders come off (unless you're still too busy looking at the shiny baubles on our dead soldiers uniforms, who have given their lives

Millions? Where did you get that number from? And yes, American soldiers have given their lives during this war.

When an American soldier joins the military, including myself, we take an oath of enlistment. We know exactly why we are joining, and what the conciquences could be. We are all completely aware and prepared to give our life serving for this country. Would I die for our country? Yes. A lot of people won't agree with me here, but that is my personal stance and my pride. And if I did happen to die in combat, I know my wife, and my parents and family would be proud of me and know I did it to better the world. And most of the families of soldiers that have died would and do feel the same way.

I'd like to see your superiors provide you with a similar list... about Afghanistan

I didn't get this email, but I'm sure the end results are the same. Also, we didn't attack Afghanistan, just some of the military targets of the Taliban. And yes, we have helped to rebuild that country just as much, and we still are.

Hooray for American soldiers!

Hooray for Saddam being gone.

Boo for being lied to as a justification for war! Al Quada links , Nuclear threat (African Uranium), and WMD's = 0 for 3!.

Yes, the world is better off without Saddam, and yes, our troops are doing a fantastic job...but you could easily use the fact that "we are unclogging the weed-choked canals" as a justification for war in about 100 different countries. I mean, just because the end benefit was good, doesnt mean that you can ignore the questions was it justified and is it worth it. Because in the name of spreading democracy, we might as well go into all of africa, all of the middle east, and france where those funny, smelly, socialists live.

Midnight Aurora has a point about Bush...

Since improving Iraq's his main priority, and at the expense of our soldiers, economy, etc..., can't we just give him to them?

Don't get me wrong, I would love if the world were a safer, healthier place, and Iraq is no exception, but when you have an economy that he believes is recovering create a measley 1,000 jobs, that's just ridiculous. Whether he inherited the mess or not, his economic plans don't work. Seriously, what good are 1,000 McDonald's type jobs when you used to make more in a professional field, and were supporting your family on that.

Also, I see no need for the U.S. to take the lead in Iraq anymore, when it's supposed to be what, a U.N. operation at this point?

I know Mike's military and likely a supporter of Bush, so this is not an attack against him by any means, but geez, let's just pack up and go home already. I know the reserves signed up for it, but it's about time they came home...a year to 16 months of BS is just too long.

Bottomline, the war will likely give him a second term, in which he'll be listed as the President of the USA, but he'll be focused on controlling his 2nd country Iraq instead, leaving the USA to rot.

Yea fun.

Crap.

Kai

Oh, and that Saddam=Bin Laden cartoon was funny. Thanks for that.

I'm not attacking you here Mike, but in a way I guess you could construe it as such. When you quote something that I've said, please make sure that you use the entire passage, or at least use it in the right context. If you had paid attention to it, you would have understood, the context was such that Soldiers are NEEDLESSLY giving their lives. Is that what you signed up for? I doubt it.

I didn't get this email, but I'm sure the end results are the same. Also, we didn't attack Afghanistan, just some of the military targets of the Taliban. And yes, we have helped to rebuild that country just as much, and we still are.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that list would be nowhere as good as the Iraqi list. It'd say stuff like "women can go to universities now" or something like that but fail to mention that many of the countries universities are still nothing more than ruins.

Or that there's still not much control outside of the capital or where there's little coalition control and supervision.

So if we can't trust media, why are you trusting this media source? It's a TV show you are, very convincingly, basing facts on. It was actually the other way around (in success rate). SCUD's only hit 0-5% of intended targets, not Patriot's hitting 0-5% of SCUD's.

Of course you'd say that. There is no way I will ever change your opinion on this matter, becase you beleive false facts and I beleive something a "consipicty theory". The point is, never trust the media or anything really. If you choose to beleive that your facts are correct and that Iraq is now a better place, I would love for you to get on a plane and fly over there so you can enjoy the great country it has become.

Blame Canada!

I want to ask all yu liberals out there....did any of you know that clinton (yes the liberal's god) has gone on the record as saying that he truly beleived Iraq had WMD's until the statue fell?

Also lets look at some facts...Saddam threw the UN out for twelve years....hmmm...twelve years+dessert space+ thousands of workers he can easily use and then kill+countries like syria= possibility of easily hiding any wmds he had...interesting, and often overlooked....

I am willing to concede the wmd issue right now...as i will agree...there is no evidence yet, but honestly the world is a much better place now because of Saddam's overthrow....Lets look shall we....Mumar is giving up his nukes...syria/Iran are freaking out, North Korea has addmitted they lied to us, and are seeking nukes....so basically the wacko dictators are running scared, and backpedaling.....
Oh and to meterix's post about Snow....you need to get current man....hes admitted on national tv...thats not what he meant....hes just pissed he got fired....in short hes wrong.....and admitted on the today show....so sorry you lose that one....

And cmon people who honestly has a chance of beating bush...Dean? Give me a break....no one knows what the man stands for.....how could you vote for him?


Edit: All this ranting made me forget the most important thing... Thanks to mike and all the soldiers serving....i want you to inform all your buddies mike, that despite what the media would have us beleive, there are still people with brains in america who support the troops...Again mike thanks man...

wow minnimee...that was...an extremely...well thought...out...post. Too bad...you used little dots...in the middle...of every...sentence.

As for your points, thats good that you are admitting there is no WMD evidence, just as I would admit there was WMD evidence should they be found in the future.

Yes, I'm glad about Khadaffi, but we will have to see about North korea, iran, and syria, it isnt over yet. And similarly, we must weigh these benefits against the thousands of young middle easterners who decided to become suicide bombers thanks to our invasion of iraq.

And yes, we already said the world is a better place without saddam. Good. Jolly good. Well, if you think about it (on our standards at least), the world would be better off if the US ran the entire continent of Africa, the middle east, britain, canada, mexico, France, Asia, Russia, etc. So, in other words, if its acceptable to invade a sovereign nation on the premise that "Saddam is bad", minni I suggest you go better go sign up for the selective service right now, coz they are going to need you real soon.

lol okay

When will the Demoncrats learn that that they're not the best in the world and that their views aren't the best?

[every fucking Democrat i've met have been so uptight about their views and hate everything about Republicans and are more hard-headed than conservative Christians about their views.]

excuse me?

And you're saying that conservatives don't think their views are correct.

Well, I personally beleive that everything I beleive is wrong. Makes a hell of a lot of sense.

That's why I am a Libertarian.

www.moveon.org <-emphasizes pym's point a lot

And gym shutup...i type how i type....deal with it...

I want to ask all yu liberals out there....did any of you know that clinton (yes the liberal's god) has gone on the record as saying that he truly beleived Iraq had WMD's until the statue fell?

How many times must I say this: liberals hate Clinton, he was a terrible president, a terrible man. The only people who like him are annoying A-list celebrities, who he invited to parties all the time, and stuff.

every fucking Democrat i've met have been so uptight about their views and hate everything about Republicans and are more hard-headed than conservative Christians about their views.

And, of course, this proves your point wonderfully. Anyone who takes an entire group of people, and calls them ignorant, is himself, just as ignorant (if not more-so).

Give me a break....no one knows what the man stands for.....how could you vote for him?

Um, right - everyone knows what Dean stands for, and that is Liberal-extremism! Therefor, every extremist Liberal (and people who just don't want Bush in office) will go and vote for him, and he may, in the end, win because of it.

Sad, isn't it? He's just as bad as Bush, only the other way...

Also, Afganistan is a complete, and utter failure for the United States of America. The reason you didn't hear all these wonderful stories comming out of Afganistan, is because then they'd be lying. As it is, they can tell everyone how great Iraq is, and hope that everyone eithe ignores Afganistan, or just assumes its equally as wonderful there.

Unfortunitely, it isn't.

And to get to the big point of this post: Did good come of the war? Yes. Did bad come of the war? Yes. Has the good outweighed the bad? Perhaps. Was it, and should it have ever been, America's problem? No. Is America better for it? No. Is America worse for it? At least at the moment...

I still don't see the justification in the war. Without the weapons, all that Bush was basing his want for war on is gone. There were no weapons found. It was totally misleading. And, although ridding the country of Saddam was a good thing, why in the fuck wasn't it done before? And if that was the reason for going to war, why the fuck weren't we told that instead of this weapons of mass destruction bullshit? Why did our government feel compelled to act on these so-called "threats" now? Why did they feel compelled to act period? It wasn't our business. We (or rather, the founders of our nation) were able to determine freely the direction of our country, so why shouldn't the Iraqis be able to do the same thing? We are shoving "democracy" into another country's lap, and I really don't understand why they have to take a backseat to what we feel is right for them. We don't know what they want, all that we know is that Saddam was a horrible human. Let them decide where to take their country. It really wasn't any of our business to begin with. We need to just back the fuck away.