General Chat / Another mall shootout (Oregon/Portland)

Well i have not yet seen a fool run into a mall or school and kill dozens of people with a hunk of wood. Sure you can kill a guy with only your hands. But guns make it too easy. That way you might not think twice if you just can go an do it.

Also the weapon industry is so big that many jobs would be lost if ignorant people could walk around with guns so they feel "safe". Its irreversible and deeply integrated in the American mindset. When i think of the USA i see a bigass billboard with a big-titted, dumb-ass girl on a beautiful mustang holding 2 M16's in both of her hands and above this all in gaint letters FREEDOM!. But i digress

Anyhow ,Yay america. way to go....

I never said I agreed entirely with gun ownership (some of the things I've seen in sports stores are just intimidating). The fact is, few people are going to go on a rampage with hunting rifle, shotgun, or an obsolete firearm. Most crimes involve illegally obtained firearms. Ethiopia and Tunisia have lower rates of gun ownership than Japan, Australia, and ANY European country. Go live there and see how fun it is if the U.S. is so violent.

Enjoy your tiny, homogenous country. You are apparently too ignorant to see anything but the big picture. Chicago is extremely dangerous in a few areas, but is the entire city as a whole? NO. If Vermont, New Hampshire, Iowa, were countries, should they insult the Netherlands for being so dangerous? I never hear anyone talk poorly about Canada's violence. Nunavut is significantly more dangerous than any U.S. state, even though very few people live there. Many states with the highest rates of gun ownership (Utah, New Hampshire, The Dakotas) have a low homicide rate. The south (being the poorest, most unequal, and most violent part of the country) has a high rate of gun ownership but the rest of the U.S. shouldn't be reflected from southern states as most Europeans seem to do too often. The rural parts of New England, the Mountain States, and the Upper Midwest have practically no crime whatsoever.

I would find your last paragraph offensive if it weren't laughably stereotypical. Just shut up and stop trying to gather an image of the world's most diverse nation.

^I hate to say this, but I'm pretty sure it's actually India that is classed as the world's most diverse nation.

Oh and Papua New Guinea is also, to some extent, considered the most diverse nation due to it's 700+ languages.

There the american's go again, claiming something they actually arent *



*again, the smiley insinuates a joke

Sad to hear this is the way you've experienced the country and its people. />/>/>/> My memories of it are very different, luckily. Guess you've run into some real idiots and they gave you an impression that sure isn't true for the entire country.

I know many americans are not like this. I realize my experience with them is way worse than average. But somehow there are enough people in the states to support the weapon laws, which are outrageous in my opinion. Thats what i am trying to say. Its a beautiful country, with some beautiful people. But somehow, for me, the "bad" people seem to stand out much more. Situations like this (shootings) amplify my view of many inhabitants of a big and powerful nation that has some weird ass constructional rights (again in my opinion).

Also i will not be called ignorant! Stubborn: YES ignorant NO. I try to see the big picture. But every time my picture is confirmed again and again and again. When i was there i saw so much violence, i didnt feel unsafe.

Im also very sorry you (jaguar) feel this heavily about my stereotype american view which was intended some kind of joke.
Anyhooo...ill try to shut up. Have a nice day guys.

You know what? For comparing Ethiopian and US societies, you REALLY deserve the -kid back. Louis, can you take this?

be fucking happy

be fucking happy

Finally something i can agree with!!!

This should do the trick..

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There are far, farrrrr more guns per person than any other place in the world.
http://en.wikipedia....pita_by_country

Look, I just want to clarify, I don't like guns either. I wish the 2nd amendment never existed. But it does, and it has for 200 years. Guns are just so ingrained into American society, we can't just ban them. You plan on walking into people's houses and asking for them? I just simply see no way of stopping them. Instead, I'm just trying to argue for the most reasonable things we can do about it. I don't like the NRA, I fully support more control over guns. Even though it's incredibly rare, its stupid and sick I should have to worry about the safety of my kids in a damn school.

America is a diverse country in terms of landscape, to. I live in the suburbs now, but I was raised in a rural area, in Texas. Just try to grow up in rural America without thinking guns are bad. It's just such a different environment, guns are something you come in contact with and use everyday. It's like cars, you use them everyday and accidents don't happen, but they can and do on rare occasions.

Let's stop the country bashing eh?

MEGAMINDY I'm also sorry that's your over riding opinion of the USA because it's not all like that. You're over simplification and stereotyping of things isn't exactly helping either and just makes people angry.

Jaguar the following quote is pretty much a contradiction and makes you seem just as bad as MEGAMINDY.

Enjoy your tiny, homogenous country. You are apparently too ignorant to see anything but the big picture.

Although this is pretty much true and something I'm guilty of from time to time.

The south (being the poorest, most unequal, and most violent part of the country) has a high rate of gun ownership but the rest of the U.S. shouldn't be reflected from southern states as most Europeans seem to do too often.

It's also not a US only Issue, Finland has a higher number of firearm offences per capita than the USA (Although it is the only western country to do so). But that's not an excuse.

It all boils down to this in my opinion.

In the USA guns are so easy to get hold of there is nothing stopping a guy who snaps from getting a gun and doing what he did yesterday. This simply isn't true for most 1st World countries (notice i say 1st World not countries like Ethiopia and El Salvador)

So US citizens need to decide if the ability to easily have a gun in your house is worth the fact that it increases the risk that something like what happened yesterday or at Virginia Tech will happen to your sons and daughters.

I feel the US as a whole has already decided that that is a trade off they are willing to make, For the most part Europeans\Asians\Australasian's have decided that's not a risk worth taking. And I for one I thank the stars for that.

Now you're just acting about as ignorant and generalizing as you say Megamindy is. You know our country is one of the first and most develloped melting pots in the Western world? We were already a melting pot when hardly anything more than the very coasts of America were being colonized y'know.

Btw although certain parts of your country are definitely very diverse, I think overall there are in fact a lot of countries that can make a better claim to the title ''the worlds most diverse nation''.

You're right. Sorry about that statement, it was a bit of an over generalization. I just got a little frustrated. Although the U.S. was a melting pot before Europeans even arrived here and there still are parts of the country with strong native American influences (New Mexico, Alaska, and most of the Upper Midwest are examples). Also, the U.S. is the most diverse when it comes to geography and if you were to go to Boston and then Los Angeles, they would practically seem like they are in different countries.

You cannot simply compare the 1st and 3rd world. First off registration of gun ownership is wáy different, so there's a lot of unknown data. Furthermore there's a different mentality and lack of means, which means more people will not have the money to resort to guns and use knifes and the like instead. That has nothing to do with guns, but with financial means.

Well, development doesn't always influence crime. India, China, and SE Asia have mostly "medium" HDI and extremely high rates of poverty. Most countries in Latin America have "High" HDI, and many countries in South and Central America are developed, In fact Latin American is almost as developed as Europe, yet many of the most violent nations are located there. Russia is also among the most violent nations in the world

Also, guns are incredibly easy to make as I've said. Anyone with scrap metal, ammunition, and a tiny amount of skill can make one.

Jaguar the following quote is pretty much a contradiction and makes you seem just as bad as MEGAMINDY.

I see this as offensive. I am not a bad person. I just made a mistake by generalizing and oversimplifying all Americans and their personal ways of living. Which i already apologized for.

Sorry I didn't mean it that way. And I'm sure Jaguar isn't a bad person either.

I meant his statements were as bad as yours were.

Apologies.

Sorry I didn't mean it that way. And I'm sure Jaguar isn't a bad person either.

I meant his statements were as bad as yours were.

Apologies.

Its okay. I understand how i came across as a dick.
But if people would stop using me as a bad example that would be great. :]

MEGAMINDY I'm also sorry that's your over riding opinion of the USA because it's not all like that. You're over simplification and stereotyping of things isn't exactly helping either and just makes people angry.

Jaguar the following quote is pretty much a contradiction and makes you seem just as bad as MEGAMINDY.


Although this is pretty much true and something I'm guilty of from time to time.


It's also not a US only Issue, Finland has a higher number of firearm offences per capita than the USA (Although it is the only western country to do so). But that's not an excuse.

It all boils down to this in my opinion.

In the USA guns are so easy to get hold of there is nothing stopping a guy who snaps from getting a gun and doing what he did yesterday. This simply isn't true for most 1st World countries (notice i say 1st World not countries like Ethiopia and El Salvador)

So US citizens need to decide if the ability to easily have a gun in your house is worth the fact that it increases the risk that something like what happened yesterday or at Virginia Tech will happen to your sons and daughters.

I feel the US as a whole has already decided that that is a trade off they are willing to make, For the most part Europeans\Asians\Australasian's have decided that's not a risk worth taking. And I for one I thank the stars for that.

I agree that guns are too easy to get. Anybody can buy a gun without a permit as long as they have no criminal history. Even though I do support the Second Amendment, this country needs to make guns more difficult to get, so only the best of Americans can get it. This is why, like I said earlier, a permit should be required PRIOR to purchasing a gun. Getting the permit would require gun safety classes and a strict mental evaluation. How does the evaluation determine if you get the permit you ask? Here's my plan: The evaluation runs on a scale of 0-20. You can only get your permit if you score a 17 or higher, that's 85%. This way, the chance of giving a gun to someone who is likely to snap is greatly reduced, but not so much that everyday Americans can't get them.

...

I agree, there needs to be stricter regulation. Although what will we do with firearms that are already in ownership assuming that at least some of the gun-owners have the potential to snap.

nothing. you do nothing. even with more strict gun laws, criminal acts like this will happen. if these people are willing to even consider doing something as disgusting as what occurred the other day, what makes you think they won't find a way to get a gun? it's going to happen, regardless of the law.


marijuana has been 'illegal' for over 75 years now. have the strict laws resulted in a decline in usage? fuck no it hasn't. nobody is offered a joint, and turns it down because it is illegal. point begin, you can't stop it. sex, drugs, and guns are here to stay. if the people want it, the people will get it.

as long as criminals have guns, you can't tell non-criminals they can't also have guns to protect themselves. and i get that 'non-criminals' with a gun can easily turn into criminals themselves, but it's not the gun that makes the choice to do so.

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that's why i stand by the fact the people kill people and not guns. think about it this way... somebody becomes addicted to heroine. they became addicted to the drug because they made the choice to try the drug. and then they made the choice to do it again, and again, and again. ultimately, that individual is to blame. they made the choice, knowing the consequences.

you don't blame the drug for a drug addicts problems. the same way you don't blame the gun for a gunman's rampage.

this fucking country. personal responsibility doesn't exist anymore.

I don't really get the whole 'gun as a defensive weapon' thing and the 'they've got a gun, so i need a gun'.

If someone comes into my house with a gun I have a perfectly good hockey stick next to my bed to use in defense, my friend has a baseball bat, my other friend a golf club.

You don't need a gun when you have something to whack someone over the head with.

Also, at the end of the day, if someone comes into your house with a gun and you shoot them, you've got a high chance of killing the person, which you'll then get sent to prison for, defense or not. You whack them over the head and you'll just knock them out and injure them, no prison sentence.

I'm telling everyone, fuck gun control, hockey sticks is where it's at.

I've got a steel bar for defense.
Might not hit someone to hard though or i will kill him i guess.

Louis, I'm going to come to England with a paintball gun and break into your house, without you knowing. If you hit me with your hockey stick before I shoot you, I will be very impressed. Then were going to Alton towers together ok?

Edit-also, if you shoot someone in self defense, it isnt illegal. In the States anyway. If it was, why would people keep guns for self protection?